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Reviewing/Feedback for friend's music/works...
StoreTags: reviews, feedback, music, critique
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How do you handle critique-ing someone else's music (especially a friend's)? I generally try to avoid it unless someone out-right asks me to - in which case I feel obligated to be as clear and honest as possible.
Several weeks ago a good friend that I hadn't seen in many years (due to distance) sent me a track that he was working on (a Demo - he called it). I listened to it for a while off an on before giving an assessment. I finally did so - with the disclaimer that (1) he shouldn't take any of this personally - 'cause it's about a piece of music, not him, and (2) this is only one opinion and his goals for this music (a dance track) may have little to do with what mine would be given the same elements to work with.
In brief - I told him it really didn't sound close to being a finished idea to me... more of a very rough sketch than a demo. Also, the overall form lacked cohesion, structure, and direction. Keep working at it, flesh out your ideas and textures more fully and convince me that you know what this is saying and where it's going. There were hints at structure, but it wasn't there yet.
Of course my feedback was much more detailed - complete with timing, specific sounds, etc. But after I'd sent it I became a little worried that it might have been too harsh - and I didn't want him to stop working on it. Though I haven't heard back from him yet, I was wondering how you have dealt with such requests - if ever. | |
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01/28/08
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celibacyclub
its nice to point out something you did like in it, if anything.
honesty is very valuable but difficult.
01/28/08
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yghartsyrt
my route is. say something positive. then some stuff you don't like.
rinse and repeat.
01/28/08
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antfactor
^^ that's a good point... but honestly there was very little to go on...
01/29/08
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madeofoak
i usually only give detailed constructive criticism if i know the person really well and work with them or trade tracks regularly. if it isn't someone i usually deal with, i just pick out something i liked (or came close to liking) and mention that. there's really no good that can come of harshly criticising their work, since they'll almost certianly take it pretty hard. say something nice and move on.
01/29/08
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Tripnik
<novel>
personally, I hate the compliment sandwich, and I also don't normally like one liner compliments. "no...you're very pretty...you ...uh...you have nice teeth". It tends to sound a bit patronizing to me. As much as it can sometimes suck to hear harsh criticisms of your work, once you get over it, it usually ends up being the most helpful. If nothing else, you'll know how someone from a specific background different than yours will perceive your work which can help if you're crafting a piece for a specific audience.
If someone asks me for crits, I generally let it fly. If I know the person on a surface level, and I know they're more fragile, I'll candy coat things, or preface it with tons of disclaimers about personal aesthetics yadda yadda, but for the most part, I'm an asshole and people who ask me for crits know I'm an asshole or at least they'll find out soon.
One of the best guitar teachers I've ever had told me at the end of one of my first lessons with him that both he and I knew there were 8 year old guitarists in the world that could play better than me and that I had a lot to learn. I learned a TON from him because he never patted me on the head and told me "good job". He would straight up call me out on shit. When he said something as simple as "that was nice", it felt bloody awesome because you knew that he really meant it with no disclaimers.
People who are serious about music should be honored to receive honest critiques since they're so difficult to find. Build up a thick skin and realize that just because people aren't saying things to your face, it doesn't mean they like your music any more. They could have some comments that would totally change the way you think about sound, but if you're too afraid to get hurt, you'll never grow.
sorry for the book, but this is something I feel very strongly about.
</novel>
01/29/08
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ricemutt
yeah, well I'm with tripnik, but really, if I let everyone know exactly what I thought about the music they showed me, I probably wouldn't have many friends, because so many of my friends are musicians, haha. But I still try to be honest.
01/29/08
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Tripnik
ha...I have very few friends and that may be part of the reason why. That and I believe that showering is unnatural and only godless heathens do it.
01/29/08
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daswesen
I like to receive harsh criticism, but from people I know mean what they say, like have thought about it. I think I am pretty thick skinned, but sometimes some remarks crack me up, especially when I know it's just about style and I shouldn't care. In the end though it's nice to have something to build up from, like someone saying "yah that doesn't sound too good, I think the drums sound like mush, you should make them more present", things like that. Positive comments are always good though 
I think the thing is maybe to learn also to discern how a positive comment is meant. You can usually see that "yeah that's nice man" probably means, not too bad, but not really something i'd listen to again, while "woooh dude that's AWESOME" is meant much more honestly.
Anyway, hard thing, in the end it all boils down to your perception anyway.
01/29/08
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antfactor
Another factor - I suppose - would be whether the "critiqued" in question was a seasoned producer/musician (many tracks/year for many years) versus someone that does this very occasionally. To be honest, I'm not sure where my friend falls on that scale. I should really call and talk about it in person. I believe - generally - the more material one produces the less precious one gets about any one piece.
01/29/08
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madeofoak
i stand my ground, teoh! grr! so there!
01/29/08
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antfactor
i see your ground - and raise it. ;)
01/29/08
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Tripnik
you're coming to brooklyn fairly soon mr. oak. Careful which enemies you make!
01/29/08
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monty
it probably depends on what type of music you want to make,
but i think if you've got to start asking friends for serious crits, then somethings wrong.
its like asking someone to smell you to decide if you need a bath.
you shouldnt have to ask.
(unless you have a nasal condition, then its cool...)
the only time i ask for feedback, is when ive done a live set and i ask people if the overall sound was ok.
maybe its arrogance.
the whole of idea of giving each other "serious" crits sound fake to me.
especially if its between friends who make music.
its like a group of guys who are all after the same girl.
ill let my music making friends hear my stuff, but only like "hear man, this is what ive been up to"
like a musical postcard.
01/29/08
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ricemutt
yeah i'm pretty awful at taking feedback, actually. I appreciate it on some deep level but I don't think I've ever actually listened once to any musical advice anyone on this planet has ever given me. Except maybe Patrico.
01/29/08
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skab
avoid this comment
"It's like [band name] on [drug name]"
that one makes me want to hurt people
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