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Mics that are good for live computer input?
StoreTags: microphones, audiomulch
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Dear EM411, I usually just lurk but since so many of you are playing shows more than me maybe someone here has suggestions.
I played a collaborative set with GULLS (provisionally entitled...'stratagulls'- doh!!) last Sunday nite and we had major feedback issues. I had the mic running directly into audiomulch via my MOTU 828 soundcard. We were using a simple older model condenser mic so I could live-process hand percussion using my software.
At home it worked great (a little quiet tho) and then at the show it was a feedback nightmare.
Anyone know a mic that is computer friendly, feedback-control friendly? I am assuming for PA systems in most rooms that anything Omnidirectional is out of the question. I'm thinking about the cheap Blue Ball made by mic company Blue, which seems geared towards the geek music/home project studio market. My budget is tight.
Anyone have recommendations/experience?
Thanks!!!
STRATEGY | |
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04/08/08
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Spark
A good feedback control friendly mic is an Shure SM57, it has it's advantages and disadvantages.
It's small, durable, and it sounds OK on most things. They are cheap, easy to rent, and easy to come by second hand. Likely someone you know has one.
But, It's isn't incredibly detailed or HI-FI. Non-condenser, and not ultra responsive either. So if you're doing detailed noise experiments with cricket sounds or something.. then this isn't the mic. But if you're gonna mic up a bass cab and put it right next to the kick drum.. then yeah. It's gonna do it for you.
And all that is in between.
There may even be a suitable 57 Killer out there.. but I haven't heard of one.
04/08/08
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ignatius
sm57's and 58's are sort of the go to live show mics (widely used in studios too) but there are others. sadly, i've never mic'd a damn thing for a live situation.. only in a studio setting.
condenser mics are usually much more sensitive than dynamic mics like a 57 and tend to pic up everything in the room even off axis so that can make them problematic in certain settings. try a 57 or similar next time and see how it works out. just ramp up the gain on your mic pre and slap a compressor on it. i think some trial and error is in your future.
happy hunting!
04/08/08
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Roshi
As someone who deals with this everytime I play, it really really helps to have some sort of feedback rejection (notch filters/feedback rejectors) to anything that goes in monitors...
If you must do it yourself, the behringer feedback rejectors are actually really good as long as you tune them to the room before you play...do not use the auto filters - they tend to notch anything that is long and sustained.
Here is a quick blog article and bookmark about reducing feedback that I wrote a while ago: link There are a lot of things you can do to reduce the feedback. Including watching your monitor levels/using in ear monitors, running a slight pitch shift on the monitor output. Keep the levels down and your mic pointed away from speakers.
04/09/08
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Spark
Before you play.. "Ring Out" the room..
This means, bring all your mics up to the point that they feedback, then turn them down a little. That way you know your maximum gain before feedback.
Feedback rejection as roshi said, is a novel way as well.
04/09/08
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Roshi
Often times a good soundguy will be able to notch out the feedback frequencies, if there is time during the sound check.
However, as spark said, there is an upper limit to how loud you can turn up the mic/monitors.
Playing a cello through distortion pretty much makes me encounter this problem everytime. My solutions are to use in ear monitors, no sound from monitor speakers on stage, feedback rejectors if necessary, and careful placement of mics and pickups. Also, make sure soundguy can ride that channel or have some sort of killswitch (I have one expression pedal routed to volume so I can ride my own fader).
Directional dynamic mics are much better than omnidirectional ones. I also disagree with iggy re: compression - that can can actually make the feedback situation worse.
04/09/08
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quip
its all been said here:
sm57/58
ring out the room
avoid massive compression and volume
low level monitors or in ear
watch for vibrating surfaces if you are using decks or anything.
don't both with buying a flash condensor mic for live use, it will only get trod on.
04/09/08
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strategy
Yep. I should have mentioned as well that this was a no soundguy gig
THANK YOU!
Strata
04/09/08
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opticecho
I agree on the 57!! Cheap and works relatively well on feedback. Good luck ...
04/10/08
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mapmap
hey paul,
Holy shit. you and Gulls! did you send out an email about that one? i totally missed it.
keeping mics away from monitors is always good. i wound up switching to contact mics anywhere i could due to feedback issues (i use them on melodicas, thumb piano, tuning forks and light percussion) you give those a shot.
~marc
04/10/08
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redhand
Strategy,
Lots of good ideas here but none mention a gate. If you are using a mic inputed to a computer (DAW) it helps huge to have a gate with a high threshold on it. Just make sure your monitoring is through the D
04/10/08
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redhand
Continued from last post.....
Make sure your input is through the DAW and not straight through the sound card. Hope that helps... and then you can use whatever mic you want practically!! I actually use condenser mics with that setup all the time
04/10/08
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strategy
Great ideas-
contact mics- I do use these a lot, for their sonic characteristics as well as the feedback contingencies. most of mine are trashed right now (contact mics get totally trashed) but I found some fancy ones at link (Cold Gold contact mics) that I will probably pick up soon.
Re: gates, that's a good idea as well. I don't need a DAW, i could go right into the sound card, and then put a noise gate VST object just after the input contraption in my audiomulch environment. I'm sure the virtual/vst gate would do just as well.
I ended up getting for $50 off ebay a BLUE Blue Ball dynamic mic. Their condenser is the "8 Ball" and the dynamic mic is the Blue Ball. this should be functionally similar to the 57, except that it's phantom powered and should be a little bit more sensitive!
P
04/16/08
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cloudburst
i have a pair of cold gold contact mics, they are quite nice. made in canada too, just like me. isn't that pleasant?
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