| StoreTags: collective acti, union, zinn
Author: flies on July 25 2006 Viewed 2236 times. 3 people liked this blog. You can rate it below if you haven't already.
-->
i just watched some bits and pieces fo a biopic on Howard Zinn on the sundance channel, and i got to wondering about collective action.
Zinn proposes that the best hope for the marginalized groups is collective action, meaning civil disobedience and labor organization, etc. At the very least, Zinn proposes that these are effective tools.
I must say that these are effective tools, but i am cynical about the matter. in addition to the massive effort required on the part of organizers, collective action requires agreement among those who would be organized. American culture is so lazy and self interested on the one hand, and of course one of the great problems with collective action is that it requires difficult compromises on the part of the collective, where black rights activists have to bond together with socialists and labor unions in order to improve labor conditions, for example. those three groups have very different ideologies and getting them to work together is incredibly difficult.
of course there is no general solution.
i don't really have that much to add, I'm just wondering what experiences you all have had or thoughts you'd like to share concerning collective action and other grassroots democratic activity.
of course i also wonder "what can i do that won't require me to spend more than an hour a month doing it?" i am lazy... | |
Comments
07/25/06
+
PM |
QUOTE |
PERMALINK |
REPORT
flies
PAWEL said: "just come out and say it. All american men are retarded fat pigs. Isn't that what your point is?"
yes, you found me out.
07/25/06
+
PM |
QUOTE |
PERMALINK |
REPORT
mlbot
in Oregon, any collective action draws out large groups of pseudo-hippy anarchist types who just like to protest.
Events like critical mass, which I though was designed to force motorists to start treating cyclist with respect by riding en masse once a year turned into a large group of cyclists in which a large group of disaffected hoodlums could hide and cause proptery damage, act belligerantly, break the rules of the road, and in general just act like 12-year old destructive assholes... which in turn makes motorists mad at bicyclists. But the motorists don't get even against a large group. They wait till the next day and run commuters off the road. Thanks anarchists, now fuck off.
07/25/06
+
PM |
QUOTE |
PERMALINK |
REPORT
p
I don't think that's just oregon, mlbot. I've seen it happen in D.C. and that was supposedly the cause of the property damage I witnessed while in london (some Jewish and Gay protesters were marching, but weren't the ones burning cars).
alot of people are just looking for an excuse...and they end up making the civil protesters look bad.
07/25/06
+
PM |
QUOTE |
PERMALINK |
REPORT
flies
self-righteous indignation is probably inevitable for 'progressives', and it can be expressed in many ways. this is not entirely bad, but the worst possible expression is to attack those who disagree with you.
you cannot win converts through violence nor verbal abuse. Learn from GWBush: you can't force a love of liberty on people by kicking them in the ass.
07/25/06
+
PM |
QUOTE |
PERMALINK |
REPORT
quip
mlbot said: "in Oregon, any collective action draws out large groups of pseudo-hippy anarchist types who just like to protest.
Events like critical mass, which I though was designed to force motorists to start treating cyclist with respect by riding en masse once a year turned into a large group of cyclists in which a large group of disaffected hoodlums could hide and cause proptery damage, act belligerantly, break the rules of the road, and in general just act like 12-year old destructive assholes... which in turn makes motorists mad at bicyclists. But the motorists don't get even against a large group. They wait till the next day and run commuters off the road. Thanks anarchists, now fuck off."
have to agree here. i used to go on critical mass. then i saw my friend get run over by a car that dragged him 200 yards up the road at 50mph. he then got arrested for damaging the guys car. i thought sod this for a game of tennis. i think action can work if done right. obviously the civil rights march's and Emmeline Pankhurst did change things. however i find alot of the time direct action can be ruined by have a go heros wanting in on the action and like you say resorting to property damage or worse to get there point across and missing it by miles. i like to think that a little goes a long way. stuff like volunteering in the community, helping out at homeless shelters, working with disaffected youth, planting trees (hippy i know!) all that stuff is probably way more useful and effective than kicking in mcdonalds (which i have seen done on a number of occasions...).
07/26/06
+
PM |
QUOTE |
PERMALINK |
REPORT
lematt
I think that collective actions are not as positive...
think that a "positive individualism" would be better.
edited: Jul 26 2006
+
PM |
QUOTE |
PERMALINK |
REPORT
sclr
i think autonomy is the best solution. alot of anarchists in portland get burned by 'leaders'. they always fall into the same trap used by social constructs. needing guidance, looking up to someone, feeling the need for organisation etc. alot of 'collectives' suffer from the same. but there are also some great group activities here in portland. volunteer work is always needed somewhere. soup kitchens are a great way of being active in a comunity. but most of these are not conditions of change. its a tough thing to shuffle through esp. if you are low on time. i read an article on d yellow swans in the new wire. they created a great theory on pychadelic economy. reminds me of bohdi darma and zen buddhism meets laissez-faire.
i am of the opinion that if you are not doing anything you are dead. so if you are alive something is going on with you. if you spend that time being and are honing something thats not lazy. lazy is a loaded word anyway. people know what to do. what they want and need. change from within begets change in the world. if you take the reigns of your mind you are an example for all.
07/27/06
+
PM |
QUOTE |
PERMALINK |
REPORT
flies
well thanks for the pep talk, sclr :P i guess i'm not lazy after all. as to whether i am "an example for all"...
autonomy is certainly the goal, but i don't think that change from within is the whole solution. don't get me wrong, the existentialists got it right by saying that each wo/man is an example to his fellow wo/men on how to live. but it's simply way too christ-like to believe that smiling in the face of tyranny is going to destroy the tyrant's power.
For instance, if i meditate for an hour every day for 6 months, i'll likely end up being a more collected person by the end of it all. but if my goal is to, say, allow over the counter sales of the day-after pill, I don't see how meditating is really going to help with that. If that is my goal, it seems like the best thing I can do is start a petition or some such. isn't that right?
09/06/06
+
PM |
QUOTE |
PERMALINK |
REPORT
sclr
yes. but the meditation + action can allow for better or more constructive results. i guess i don't feel the need to petition as much as some. i should be more active politically but i too suffer from shortage of time. i guess what i am saying is if you take a grip on yourself you have more options. if you are honing your mind paths will open. at least i have found this to be true for myself. for the first couple of years i was stubborn but as i went along i saw things were a lot more open to me than i thought. there was a change of perception and that seemed to change reality around me. then since my responses(or lack thereof) were different than they had been other options and experiences were available.
ps. sorry i took so long in responding.
09/13/06
+
PM |
QUOTE |
PERMALINK |
REPORT
flies
are you saying that meditating makes you better able to make political change? or are you saying more than that?
PS i am now meditating once a day for 20-50 minutes. I put on music and get down with my bad self. Listening to music isn't necessarily the best way to promote detachment, but it does have the desired effect of stilling the mind a bit. Lots of work to be done as far as really creating stillness.
09/13/06
+
PM |
QUOTE |
PERMALINK |
REPORT
mlbot
PS, three cheers for over-the-counter morning after pills (only cheer if you are 18+)
it must be working, flies!!!
edited: Sep 13 2006
+
PM |
QUOTE |
PERMALINK |
REPORT
celibacyclub
poetic terrorsm is cool too. maybe that sort of thing, tricky stencils, sign rewording, could go along with collective action. a way for ppl to talk about things they think matter, and then some groop show of support, like wear a so and so if you hate this or that.. ways to communicate things we feel but dont say or think will make a difference on our own.
Register / login
|
^
EM411 is Copyright 2001-2008 EM411.com
All rights reserved. | Contact | RSS
|
