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singer ending up doing production = bad move
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I don't like the stuff I do with my arrangements although I feel as if there must be some way to arrange my tracks and mix it to make the melodies and lyrics I come up with somewhat palatable for the masses. It's just that I'm probably not the one to do that job. I've been working on music production for about 8 years now and have very little to show for it. But I still can't call it quits for some reason. This problem is worsened when it's you can hardly run into people who want to work with you.
it seems as if in production, one falls in one of two camps: pretty glossy bedroom recording (ala khonnor) style or really really subpar demotune sounding garbage. I, unfortunately, fall into the latter category. It also doesn't help when doing something like writing a bassline is an experience akin to pulling teeth. | |
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06/15/08
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astroid
find someone who complements you musically.
for me, that was a mixing engineer once, and another time it was someone who actually enjoyed playing their instrument.
now it's just back to being me, but yeah, good experience. i wouldn't stress thinking about it too much, just whore yourself around until the pieces fit.
06/15/08
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astroid
oh and 'the masses'? i certainly hope you're kidding. the masses would be content hearing 0db dynamic range 1bit christmas card versions of achey breakey heart in all 12 keys sung by charlotte church. MAJOR LIFT!
06/15/08
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eyesnine
struggling with your music can often bring inspiration. kurt vonnegut said that you need to do something for 10 years before you even know if you're good at it.
art is a problem solving exercise. if writing a bass line is like pulling teeth, then figure out a better way to write a bass line (there's a lot of them).
i find i'm always dissatisfied with my work, but i think this is a good sign. you just need to find some perspective on it, possibly from a third party (surely second in this case?). make sure you're not constantly making the same mistakes. if you're not, then you're bound to get good sooner or later if you just keeping making stuff.
good luck!
06/15/08
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Fredo
first of all, I have listened to three of your tracks and I really enjoyed them all. Is that your voice on the last three? The most recent sounds like a female voice... Did you pitch it up? Sounds awesome.
My one crit about your music, and it's one that I have for myself as well, is that it's a bit wet. Just keep working, experimenting. It's difficult sometimes to arrange your own material because you are so close to it, and especially if you are a very self-critical person. But it pays off. You will make discoveries and it will be worth it for those moments of inspiration. But my feeling is that your arrangements are strange and interesting, and very expressive of your own vision, so keep up with it!
06/15/08
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kenrestivo
"kurt vonnegut said that you need to do something for 10 years before you even know if you're good at it."
Really? I didn't know he said that. For decades, I've been staying that it takes 5 years of doing anything in order to know if you're any good at it. At least that's been my experience.
I don't think I've done anything much longer than 5 years, though-- probably because that's the point where I usually find out I'm not any good at it.
06/15/08
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eyesnine
don't remember exactly where i read that, i have a feeling it was in an interview... maybe in god bless you dr kevorkian.
makes sense to me. i've been making computer music for about 6 years and i honestly feel that i've come further in the last year than at any other point. if i hadn't had classical music training i might feel differently though, as introductory music theory gives you a big jump in the learning curve.
i think the biggest thing is learning how to get better rather than how to get good, if you know what i mean. like every piece of work you do should lead to the next one. and you should learn something new every time. even if you've been doing it for 30 years.
there's a metaphor commonly used to describe how evolution works that comes from alice in wonderland. you'll have to forgive me if i don't get the details right, i think its called the race with the red queen. the red queen and alice are in a race, they're running as fast as they can but they're both staying in the same place. not moving at all. alice says "queen, what is the point of this race? we're not going anywhere!" the queen replies "alice, in this race you have to run as hard as you can just to stay in one place". the world of music is constantly evolving and if you don't evolve with it you get left behind.
this is probably entirely off topic, but i think its important.
06/15/08
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eyesnine
oh yeah, i went back to school for computer science. thats why i've been getting better the last year. lots of lateral inspiration.
06/17/08
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goguru
I think that one of the best way to progress is by listening to A LOT of music while paying close attention to the aspect you want to ameliorate. Active listening rather then passive listening. Take notes. Work constantly.
06/17/08
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nightowl
artists are their own worst critics, rarely satisfied with their work, even when others recognize its quality.
06/20/08
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kidgamma
lol the alice quote, from through the looking glass, it's like, the queen accuses alice of living in a very slow sort of country, in the queen's country, you have to run as fast as you can just to stay in one place.
then she offers alice, who's mouth is dry from running, a biscuit
sorry for the pointless post
06/20/08
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Sonarcade
astroid: I have to admit that I haven't been too active on the collaboration front after having a few discouraging experiences. also, I have to admit that if the masses ask for achy breaky heart, I would hope to be the one giving it to them.
eyesnine: I think a lot of what you said is more expansive than it is off-topic, and for that, I can see the significance of your message even more thoroughly. It most certainly resonates with my recent change in attitude with regards to my work ethics. I think the hardest part about your message is that I'm a pretty impatient person and demand immediate results. If only, right? Why doesn't music work like that? This is further compounded by the overwhelming set of possibilities of bass pitches, note lengths, tone-related parameters, etc etc. I don't know if I'll have the luxury to figure all this out.
fredo: although the speaking parts were pitchshifted, the main vocals weren't, assuming you're talking about Walter's Collection. I took your advice about leaving my vocals dry on my most recent attempt. I'm finally finding the courage to experiment but can get easily discouraged and could use a drill sergeant telling me to suck it up.
goguru: I actually thought the very same thing for the many years I feel I've wasted on listening to a large group of albums I've amassed. But you do mention active listening and while I have tried to sit down with a track to figure its inner workings, I've discovered the activity for myself to be akin to being a blind man teaching himself what color looks like. I can be a bit slow when it comes to identifying sensory things in a precise manner (this is why I can't appreciate a good wine's tannens or minerality). So I've turned to redirecting most of my attention to just doing it and exploiting all possibilities until I come across the one that feels right. Of course, this process has shown to be very exhausting and felt a bit fruitless. I just wish I could reduce it to a formula or science.
nightowl: I think this comment kind of backfires when someone like myself can't find a certain number of "others" to recognize a song's quality. I'd honestly be happy with being able to satisfy everyone else but myself since I've come to define my satisfaction through others. It's true.
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