Electronic Music 411 - RS7000 vs RM1x as a sequencer

04/02/08 + sohcahtoa

Does anyone here have experience using the RM1x and RS7000 from Yamaha?

I'm interested in these as sequencers...don't care about the internal sounds. I'm wondering if there's any big difference between the sequencers on the RM1x and the RS7000. If I go the cheaper route and grab a RM1x, will I be missing any great sequencer features from the RS7000?

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04/02/08 + jp

the difference is not that big. the only real drawback of the rm1x compared to the rs7000 is the lack of special pattern keys. you cannot switch patterns and mute tracks at the same time you have to switch modes. this is done by pressing a button so you don't have to dive into the menu.
and the rs7000 has more knobs for tweaking the midi effects which are really great. on the rm1x you have to hold shift for some edits. and the rs7000 has loop remix which (in connection with the sampler, but it should work with midi only, not sure though) is really a killer feature.
if you can get the rm1x for a lot less than the rs7000 i'd buy the rm1x. but be careful: my rm1x has weak keys already (that seems to be a known problem), so it would be good to try it out before you buy. my rs7000 doesn't seem to suffer from this problem. the rm1x is also much more portable...

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04/02/08 + Otterfan

I've got an RM1x, and I've used an RS7000. The RS7000 has some definite improvements.

* In grid (X0X) sequencing, the RM1x plays one channel at a time. That sucks. Basically it's useless. I only use step/realtime recording (and the edit menu) no the RM1x. This isn't too much of a problem for me, since most of my patterns are longer than 16 steps anyway, but it would be nice to have X0X-style sequencing for some stuff.

* You have to press stop to switch channels on RM1x, but not on the RS7000. So you can only edit one channel in a live situation.

* The RS7000 has a "loop remix" feature that does some funny, semi-randomish things to the synth and sample material. Not available on the RM1x.

* There's also a bug in the RM1x that sends a Program Change to all your attached MIDI devices and resets them to voice 0 whenever you hit 'stop'. You can work around this, but it's annoying.

* RS7000 has two MIDI outs, RM1x just one.

The RM1x has the RS7000 beat in weight, build quality (IMHO), and load time (no sampler, so everything loads quicker). In general I love my RM1x, but if I had it all to do over again...

BTW, the Emu command stations (XL-7 & MP-7) are alot like the RM1x but with better live editing, better sounds, and a smaller display.

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04/02/08 + sohcahtoa

Cool cool cool. Thanks for the detailed and helpful responses. I think I may be leaning towards the RS7000 now.

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04/02/08 + PYVND

RM1x has two features that the RS7000 does not have.

1) RM1x has 4 knobs (with a shift making 8) for midi fx. RS has 3 knobs.
2) RM1x has a 4 way directional thing that makes navigating around the display a bit easier. RS does not.

I used to own the RM1x and I found I had to stop all the time to do "jobs" to edit anything. RS (which I own now) is more fluid. And the sounds in the RS are actually pretty good if you want rough and ready dance sounds. RM1x sounds were very bad but RS has usable internal sounds that can be edited very quickly. Basically, if you just play the RS sounds without changing them they are not good but turn a couple of knobs and boom whole different story. RS also has two velocity sensitive rubber pads which come in handy.

If Yamaha were to release an updated RS7000 I would be the first in line for it. I had a PX7 and although I hear people say its sequencer is good I found it very hard to use. RS7 all the way baby.

04/02/08 + inteliko

Ive had a Love Hate relationship w/ the Rm1x since it came out and I just put it up on the bay not too long ago...
Go with the RS...
The Rm1x you really got to put ALOT of love into it to make it love you back(referring to the internal sounds. And the Rm1x actually has 16 ( 8 w/o shift) knobs for midi control per channel. 16 knobs multiplied by 16 channels...do the math.

I never upgraded to the newer Rm1x OS so some bugs may or may not be fixed. I constantly remeber bugs with the Rm1x midi clock when working with electribes, these bugs involved stopping one machine which is usually a no-no.

04/02/08 + inteliko

The MIDI delay effect on the RM1x is sick btw , and the data from the midi delay can be sent via the midi output....fun as hell and the notes are shiftable..RS has the MIDI delay effect also(correct me if im wrong) but can be more fun I imagine using it on your favorite sample library loaded internally.

04/03/08 + PYVND

RM1x has 8 knobs in the upper corner but only 4 are for midi fx (play fx). The other 4 are for editing internal voices. The layout of the RM1x is actually quite good. If only it didn't require stopping to do any old thing it would be just fine. I could even live with the crap internal sounds since it's cheap but the other issue was a bother.

04/03/08 + inteliko

RTFM>Setup>Knob Assign!

04/03/08 + bla

what can you edit on the rm1x while its playing?

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04/04/08 + Otterfan

You can do a lot with the RM1x while it is playing.

The way I use it, each song (called a style) is made of 16 possible patterns. A pattern is a looping section made of up to 16 tracks (they call them sections). Each track plays a phrase on one MIDI channel. The phrases are where the actual notes are--like a MIDI clip in a software sequencer.

While it's playing, you can:

* switch from one pattern to another
* change the phrase playing in any track
* mute/unmute any track (there are also macro buttons that will mute/unmute multiple tracks at a time)
* change a phrase's velocity, pitch bend, gate time, phrase time (stretch or compress a phrase), time shift (make the phrase start a number of beats sooner/later)
* add midi delay to a phrase (MIDI delay on the RM1x is the tops)
* change groove settings for a phrase (there are groove settings for pitch, gate time, start time, and velocity)
* fiddle with the arpeggiator (worst arpeggiator ever)
* send any arbitrary cc# using the knobs
* various stuff with the internal voices (more on them later)

The only thing you really can't do is change notes in more than one phrase at once without stopping. When you go to the Step mode to edit a phrase, you can add/change notes while playing, but if you want to edit another phrase (or just leave edit mode) you have to press stop. It's more of a pain for composing than live use.

And the X0X grid editing just sucks. You can only hear one track at a time while in Grid mode. So while you edit a drum track you can't hear the bass. Never use it.

I'm starting to come around to the sound capabilities of the RM1x. It's still the worst thing I own sound-wise (and it's also the newest/most expensive synth I've ever bought), but the filter isn't terrible. You can edit some of the sounds into something not entirely bad, especially if you aren't looking for hi-fidelity/expressiveness.

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04/04/08 + meatbingo

I had an RS7000 a few years back. Wish I'd never sold it. It's a testament to their popularity / reputation that they're still selling for as much as I sold mine for four years ago. I might investigate the RM1x as a cheaper alternative.

04/04/08 + bla

thanks otterfan
so i still want an rm1x (one day)
i need to be able to choose notes/velocities/note lengths/timing while its playing- i cant do that with my mmt8- which makes composing a pain

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04/04/08 + rjtuna

Wel I sorta permently have my rm1x slaved to my main sequencer,maybe its a bad habit, but for pure technological nuttiesness, groove mode, midi delay, harnmonizer( x2) knobs, quick sending of midi tracks. also can be "invisible" with the different midi through options,

i have not used the internal sounds, i have never used the "song mode"
I have actually been doing some sequenceing on a sy77, which is earlier incantation of the same idea, with much better sounds!

one step forward, one step back.

2 steps foward would probably by rm1x plus live, and and and.

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04/04/08 + ascdi

the rm1x is bonkers. i got one on a whim and it's pretty bizarre. if it was a person i would probably want to punch it in the face. so uh ... keep your eyes on the for-sale forum, rm1x-wanters!

peter