Electronic Music 411 - bidule compared to max/msp

05/02/08 + ssb0

is this like max/msp? can you do the same thing but with another interface or is it totally something else?

thought there were topics about this program but i can't find them.

i saw it is much cheaper than max/msp and if it doesn't have much ristrictions compared to max/msp i'm considering buying it.

any experience with it?

and is it harder to learn than max/msp or is it easier?

05/04/08 + ssb0

so what are actual differences, espescialy between max, bidule and audiomulch but also compared to reaktor for example?
what can you do in one wich i'sn't possible in the other?

edited: May 04 2008 + cbit

cbit said: "Bidule's documentstaion is pretty lousy (compared to max).
Bidule cannot export plugins (max can, and anyone with the free max/pluggo runtime app can use them).
In general i have the feeling that bidule is much more limited (max is extensible with C, and there are lots of 3rd party libraries, afaik this is not true for bidule)."

The negatives here also apply to reaktor. But reaktor has the advantages of more/better modules suitable for synth making, and a massive user library.

Recent blogs: Mormo: fly-on-the-wall view of track in progress, mormo studio pic, DIY monome blog

edited: May 04 2008 + ssb0

ssb0 said: "so what are actual differences, espescialy between max, bidule and audiomulch but also compared to reaktor for example?
what can you do in one wich i'sn't possible in the other?"

and what about differences in learning curve?

05/04/08 + cbit

Max was by far the 'easiest' for me. Not because it's less complex, but because its documentation beats everything else.

Recent blogs: Mormo: fly-on-the-wall view of track in progress, mormo studio pic, DIY monome blog

edited: May 04 2008 + flies

i have no experience with bidule. As far as learning curve is concerned, if you have experience with computer programming then you'll have a big leg up on learning max. Max has probably the best software documentation i've ever seen.

After having used max for a few years, i tried audiomulch. My main disappointment with mulch was the lack of automation. no LFO's! (also, who needs a friggen barber-pole synth? the shepherd filter is kinda cool, tho...) my understanding is that bidule is less limited in this way.

mulch and bidule both lack strong GUI building blocks (unlike reaktor or max) and therefore are much more usable with a midi-knob box.

Recent blogs: grade school, bohdan pacynsky, meditate?

05/04/08 + lematt

i'm a long time bidule user, and after a while the lack of GUI really pushed me away from bidule.

that said: bidule is quite funny to use, and the good thing is that you can use your layouts (patches) as vst or au plugins.

to finish, the midi learn in bidule is really easier than in max, and you can go pretty deep in live sampling, midimadness, crazy delays.

not a lot of bidule users share their patches... and there's not a lot of synth patches done in bidule, although you can do it pretty easily.

Recent blogs: Ryoji Ikeda, Back from a fresh performance, wow BINAURAL BEATS !

05/04/08 + flies

lematt, do you have a bcr2000 or the like?

Recent blogs: grade school, bohdan pacynsky, meditate?

05/04/08 + cbit

that said: bidule is quite funny to use, and the good thing is that you can use your layouts (patches) as vst or au plugins.

ah, you can export them? is that new?

Recent blogs: Mormo: fly-on-the-wall view of track in progress, mormo studio pic, DIY monome blog

05/04/08 + lematt

no, i just have a novation midi controller. i think a midi controller is mandatory with bidule or mulch...

without it you get crazy, although you can assign your computer keyboard's keys to everything too.

also: if you try to do livesampling with audiobuffers: have a look at the accum module. it's the key to everything

Recent blogs: Ryoji Ikeda, Back from a fresh performance, wow BINAURAL BEATS !

05/04/08 + lematt

cbit said: "

that said: bidule is quite funny to use, and the good thing is that you can use your layouts (patches) as vst or au plugins."

ah, you can export them? is that new?

no it's not new at all.
it's a quite old feature of bidule.

in fact there is a vst and an au version of bidule, in which you can open all your patches. you even have a rewire version, and a 16 outputs vst version...

just hang around the bidule forum, and try the demo version , it's free

Recent blogs: Ryoji Ikeda, Back from a fresh performance, wow BINAURAL BEATS !

05/05/08 + lematt

But, really: max/msp 5 is quite WORTH the price.
while i was on PC i used to play around with bidule and mulch because they were cheap, but i installed the max 5 demo on my mac and the help is absolutely perfect.
Plus i've been digging a bit in Pure Data for some monthes and when you switch to max i think it's impossible to go back.

In fact for me bidule was my entry into the modular/patching software world, but now i'm quite fond of max 5.

Recent blogs: Ryoji Ikeda, Back from a fresh performance, wow BINAURAL BEATS !

edited: May 05 2008 + cbit

in fact there is a vst and an au version of bidule, in which you can open all your patches. you even have a rewire version, and a 16 outputs vst version...

Ah ok, you don't actually export them. I do remember that you can add bidule itself as a vst/au, yes.

Recent blogs: Mormo: fly-on-the-wall view of track in progress, mormo studio pic, DIY monome blog