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Author: bb01 on December 09 2006 Viewed 2435 times. 3 people liked this blog. You can rate it below if you haven't already.
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I'm supposed to talk about indeterminancy, coincidence and serendipity in musicmaking, so obviously JohnCage will be discussed.
Question. Who would you (em user/glitch junkie) say is the modern day representative of John Cage's philosophies?
I need a protagonist in this age where avant-garde has become mainstream.
Rioji Ikeda, Richard James, Bogdan R., ...??
Shoot.
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12/09/06
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dataplex
cagean influence is noteable in aphex's work, mainly his recent prepared piano stuff. although I wouldn't compare rioji ikeda or bogdan to his work... or any of the popular EM musicians today. modern electronic music has a lot more in common with the minimalist movement than cage's aleatoric or percussive stuff.
i don't know.. maybe christian marclay. he's released some vinyl with nothing on it, sent it unprotected to recordsstores all over the world making music by the chance of scratches and such.
good luck!
12/09/06
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room
disastrato
12/09/06
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energygiant
i like johnny cage too.....but i usualy pick sub-zero
12/09/06
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bb01
Minimalism and cage's bouddhist affinity for silence/emptiness have some resemblance.
Marclay is a good one. Did not know about his experiments with nicks on vinyl.
I knew of his turntable-symphonies, very defined, not much left to chance.
I see Cage's philosophies reflected in techniques used today, such as the use of patches that yield different results each time.
Is there any other contemporary form that probably originates with the pioniers of the 60ies?
12/09/06
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bodo
bb01 said: "Is there any other contemporary form that probably originates with the pioniers of the 60ies?"
the (slightly more widespread) use of electronics in music perhaps?
ie as in custumisation to one's needs (modular et al)
12/10/06
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bb01
Right. A good point.
How about crossing the senses? I mean input images-movement-space, output sound-music-transcription.
Which famous artist today uses a lot of "alternative" input methods?
12/10/06
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Mr12000
energygiant said: "i like johnny cage too.....but i usualy pick sub-zero"
You're my hero.
12/10/06
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mrdave
what about Herbert's PCCOM with its incorporation of accidents and strict rules for sampling and truncating....maybe not in the same class as Cage, but close(ish)...
link
is the rule book
12/10/06
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bb01
Aaah, Matthew Herbert.
Lost track oh his stuff lately.
Wonderful.
12/11/06
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craque
I believe the thing that ties Cage to modern music has a lot to do with his materials and approach. He was the first one to start really working with everyday items to make sound, including pots and pans, buckets of water and wheel barrels. In a way, what he did was 'provided the freedom' for other composers and performers to do the same, implanting the idea that truly anything is possible.
There was also an instance in an early essay of his, I believe in Silence, where he predicted that the advent of electronic instruments would enable composers to work with sounds never before imagined. I'd say that particular prophesy was spot on.
But personally the really interesting part of Cage to me was the indeterminacy aspects, the notions of interpenetration and simultanaeity. It's actually a little sad to me that electronic music has moved away from the more internal and improvisational aspects of music. There are a good deal of others who share Cage's philosophy about sound and composition, far more than I could name here: Pauline Oliveros, Stewart Dempster, Ikue Mori, DJ Olive, Ty Braxton, Caffe Mathews...
Cage isn't that far gone. A lot of people in music still don't get it.
12/11/06
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bb01
craque said: "I believe the thing that ties Cage to modern music has a lot to do with his materials and approach. He was the first one to start really working with everyday items to make sound, including pots and pans, buckets of water and wheel barrels...But personally the really interesting part of Cage to me was the indeterminacy aspects, the notions of interpenetration and simultanaeity. It's actually a little sad to me that electronic music has moved away from the more internal and improvisational aspects of music. There are a good deal of others who share Cage's philosophy about sound and composition, far more than I could name here: Pauline Oliveros, Stewart Dempster, Ikue Mori, DJ Olive, Ty Braxton, Caffe Mathews..."
it makes more and more sense to me to see Herbert's music as Cage-esque. As mrdave said. More so for his use of everyday materials- objets trouvés in sound- than for any love of coincidence. That I don't see with his stuff.
I will look into others you mentioned. Cheers!
craque said: " Cage isn't that far gone. A lot of people in music still don't get it."
So true. I read up lately about the lukewarm reception his stuff had, even with the orchestras that performed his pieces.
And Im thinking, today it wouldnt be all that different. Except if he'd had a big marketing budget. ;-)
12/11/06
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straight
cages philosophies on silence, noise chance and ambient sound are 10 times more interesting than his music is to listen to. the early stuff like variations iv were interesting as multimedia events but personally i cant really get into the prepared piano pieces . [i'm more of a steve reich man personally]. for someone who is implementing his ideas and exploring them i'd try and get hold of david toops 'haunted weather'. ive eulogised about it before on here but it talks at length on chance noise and improvisation through the work of cage to the present day.
12/11/06
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craque
it's funny to hear your comment, straight... a lot of people share the opposite opinion, that the early 'notated' works are more accessible than the later ones.
i don't buy the argument that cage's philosophies are more interesting than the pieces. all that says to me is that you haven't heard enough of cage's music. 
04/05/07
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djugel
John Cage just doesn't work for me... I don't think music would be much different if he never existed. He's just not punk enough for me.
04/16/07
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ricemutt
hah, djugel, cage was pretty goddamn punk as far as classical music goes... as crazy as he probabl could have gotten... some of the music he's done is really crazy and far out. I agree with craque that if you think john cage's music isn't interesting you probably haven't heard much of it. I think the deal with cage is that his output is pretty inconsistent--he wrote a lot of really beautiful, amazing stuff, and from time to time, some stupid, pointless shit, too. That goes with the game, though, was was experimenting with so many things.
Modern people using the cage aesthetic? That's tricky... I don't think people doing "algorithmic" music are being very cage-ean, but I don't really follow new stuff enough to truly be able to say...
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