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New Atheism

StoreTags: new, atheism, god, religion, science

Author: nagrom on January 04 2007

Viewed 10765 times. 12 people liked this blog. You can rate it below if you haven't already.

People who enjoyed reading this: emulsion, astroid, cbit, datathinner, soft, Doron, flies, bsr, GregTArtZ, mixedtape, everamzah, nicknotis

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Interview with Sam Harris, author of "The End of Faith".
Basically a very rational argument for questioning, not religious freedom, but the acceptance of religion in society.

Also, if you scroll down a bit, there's an article about the origins of public school, which I implore everybody to read before sending your kids off to be hammered into cubes.

Anybody who was intrigued by the public school blurb, you may be interested in this book on the subject by John Gatto: link (it's free online)

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Comments

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01/07/07 + cbit

sorry at the tone of the last post, a bit exasperated. my fault.

Recent blogs: Cocoa coding query, DIY Monome schematic, Mormo: fly-on-the-wall view of track in progress

01/07/07 + everamzah

YA U FUCK! (ps still drunk).... i think dawkin's is a fool, and that u hold him in too high regard, as i said in the emmail i sent you. FUCK FUCK FUCK FUCK FUCK....

i truly feel like i'm adding to the quality of this fucking fuck fuck discussion fuck fuck fuck... HAHAHAHAHAHA

Recent blogs: Some Abstract Combination, Periodic #em411 reminder, it's on now

edited: Jan 07 2007 + astroid

"atheist" kind of binds you to monotheism.

kind of like "satanism" binds you to christianity.

gnosis meaning "knowledge" is a bit more humble. atheism is cultural warfare against monotheism, with good purpose, and i often agree. i'd just rather not tack myself onto the front lines of a dubious, divisive struggle.

so i call myself agnostic. having the cajones to say that something is "definitely not true" is another kind of arrogance, one which, again, irritates all kinds of moderates.

i used to be an angry atheist, i argued with folks about evolution in a pentacostal church, after going up to touch the rail and having people speak over me in tongues. i'd invite the jehovah's witnesses in to argue with them. it's useless. what isn't useless is doing what my moderate mom (christian) and dad (atheist) did, creating an atmosphere where it was ok to question either way.

sincerely,

a-stroid

Recent blogs: thank you, wetf, 2 new things in my life

01/07/07 + datathinner

what if you believe in God, but you think he should be ashamed of himself?
what would you call that?

Recent blogs: Obesity and Farm Subsidies, hey! its my studio, mackie satellite

edited: Jan 07 2007 + cbit

astroid said: ""atheist" kind of binds you to monotheism."

.. and polytheism and deism. But i agree that it is talking specifically about the question of the existence of gods. That's also why many atheists don't like the term and would prefer something that didn't talk about god at all. I can appreciate that.

astroid said: "having the cajones to say that something is "definitely not true" is another kind of arrogance, one which, again, irritates all kinds of moderates."

It's no more arrogant than saying the unicorn doesn't exist. To my mind that's not arrogant at all. Who I irritate with my view doesn't make a difference to my conviction that god and the unicorn don't exist, that's not my problem. [edit] re-reading that though, i would never say that the unicorn (for example) 'is definitely not true' i would say 'i don't believe in the unicorn' and that 'there is no unicorn'. The precision of the language one uses gives a clue about how literally it should be read.

astroid said: "
i used to be an angry atheist, i argued with folks about evolution in a pentacostal church, after going up to touch the rail and having people speak over me in tongues. i'd invite the jehovah's witnesses in to argue with them. it's useless. what isn't useless is doing what my moderate mom (christian) and dad (atheist) did, creating an atmosphere where it was ok to question either way."

I respect your conclusion.

I used to be a diplomatic agnostic. My own personal experience has lead me to a different conclusion, one which suggests that calling myself atheist is more appropriate now.

Recent blogs: Cocoa coding query, DIY Monome schematic, Mormo: fly-on-the-wall view of track in progress

01/07/07 + astroid

well i respect you, too. i hope that comes across

Recent blogs: thank you, wetf, 2 new things in my life

01/07/07 + cbit

(yes it does, i wasn't in any doubt about it

)

Recent blogs: Cocoa coding query, DIY Monome schematic, Mormo: fly-on-the-wall view of track in progress

01/07/07 + cbit

datathinner said: "what if you believe in God, but you think he should be ashamed of himself?
what would you call that?"

lol. please post back if you find out.

Recent blogs: Cocoa coding query, DIY Monome schematic, Mormo: fly-on-the-wall view of track in progress

01/07/07 + datathinner

aha!!!!

link

Recent blogs: Obesity and Farm Subsidies, hey! its my studio, mackie satellite

edited: Jan 07 2007 + cbit

flies said: "cbit said: "This in itself is extremely important to notice. For the sake of example, can you think of one thing, apart from god obviously, for which there is NO evidence of its existence that could be substituted into this example that wouldnt make the proposition look foolish? if you can, please name one.

It looks foolish precisely because it is foolish."

string theory"

good answer.

I should have said 'one thing which is by definition undetectable' in the original question.

Recent blogs: Cocoa coding query, DIY Monome schematic, Mormo: fly-on-the-wall view of track in progress

edited: Jan 07 2007 + bsr

atheism seems like a club people like to belong to: 'check me out i'm facing my own mortality!' - and dawkins seems to be a celebrity for the cause at the moment (despite seemingly not bringing much new to the table other than popularising it) and he clearly has an agenda.

now sagan seems to have exactly the same viewpoint as cbit - but he called himself an agnostic. the frustration for me here is everything you've admitted show's that you're an agnostic - you accept a system above ours is possible but you don't believe it due to lack of proof (and the unlikeliness) - that's agnostic.

dawkins has an agenda - he's articulate and clever - but the agenda is still there so i'd be suspicious. sagans comments have so much more logic and empathy to them, they're simple and clinical and aren't coloured by the opinion that religion is evil. i think dawkins book might have set the whole debate back years rather than advanced it any - it's creating a similar bigotry to the religious ones he happily attacks.

atheism is superfluous.

01/07/07 + cbit

bsr said: "now sagan seems to have exactly the same viewpoint as cbit - but he called himself an agnostic. the frustration for me here is everything you've admitted show's that you're an agnostic - you accept a system above ours is possible but you don't believe it due to lack of proof (and the unlikeliness) - that's agnostic."

I've admitted that i am, strictly speaking, agnostic. But I mentioned too the reasons that i choose not to describe myself that way in common speech.

I agree that there's a danger to the 'new atheist movement', the danger of it becoming a club like you say (us vs them). on the other hand i think it's perhaps necessary that there is such a club (with the accompanying hyperbole, media attention etc) in order to dent the taboo on criticising religious belief.

Recent blogs: Cocoa coding query, DIY Monome schematic, Mormo: fly-on-the-wall view of track in progress

01/07/07 + astroid

aha so you are arguing tactics!

Recent blogs: thank you, wetf, 2 new things in my life

01/07/07 + bsr

some religions and atheism have something in common: the unerring opinion that they're the only truth - and the desire to to convert people and teach them the error of their ways.

anyways - it's sunday, i really am going to try and stop now but it's been good and thought provoking so thank you for that.

edited: Jan 07 2007 + cbit

bsr said: "some religions and atheism have something in common: the unerring opinion that they're the only truth - and the desire to to convert people and teach them the error of their ways."

You're confusing characteristics of atheism with characteristics of people who happen to be atheists. (strict) Atheism itself is a belief or absence of belief (i don't want to get into that question right here) about the binary question of the existence of gods that's all.

It's individual (strict) atheists who don't accept the possibility that they are wrong about the question of the existence of gods and desire to convert people to their view. There is nothing inherent to atheism that demands that anyone be converted (unlike the teachings of some religions).

(thanks back too. i don't usually have the chance to discuss this stuff at length)

Recent blogs: Cocoa coding query, DIY Monome schematic, Mormo: fly-on-the-wall view of track in progress

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