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New Atheism

StoreTags: new, atheism, god, religion, science

Author: nagrom on January 04 2007

Viewed 10770 times. 12 people liked this blog. You can rate it below if you haven't already.

People who enjoyed reading this: emulsion, astroid, cbit, datathinner, soft, Doron, flies, bsr, GregTArtZ, mixedtape, everamzah, nicknotis

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Interview with Sam Harris, author of "The End of Faith".
Basically a very rational argument for questioning, not religious freedom, but the acceptance of religion in society.

Also, if you scroll down a bit, there's an article about the origins of public school, which I implore everybody to read before sending your kids off to be hammered into cubes.

Anybody who was intrigued by the public school blurb, you may be interested in this book on the subject by John Gatto: link (it's free online)

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Comments

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01/05/07 + bsr

we can never know if what we see is consistent with what others see - everything we see is coloured by our upbringing, mood, diet, inherited quirks; we can translate that into words we've learned and convey that to another person who's learned language in a different way and had different experiences. the analog is close enough for us to do incredible things, go to the moon, make a computer, split the atom - but it's still subjective.

01/05/07 + nagrom

There's a big difference between atom splitting and how you see the world on a daily basis.

The subjective part comes as how you look at things, what you look at, and how you interpret it. But just because you see things the way you want to doesn't mean the outside world, physically, isn't the same no matter who's looking at it.

Yeah, it's possible that one person's red is another's green, "Inverse spectra" theory it's called, I think, but that's irrelevant. "It's all relative" and as long as it's relative, it works.

Recent blogs: Teenage Rave Mix, NeXT-step, Interview: Mark N./Bloody Fist Records

01/05/07 + cbit

cc said: "i believe that aspects of consciousness give rise to religion. those aspects can not just be removed by talking to people. our minds as a species would have to grow a bit i think."

With a particular kind of upbringing (a non religious one) religious belief doesn't occur in most people. There are evolutionary traits that predispose us to religious belief, but that doesn't mean it's inevitable.

Recent blogs: Cocoa coding query, DIY Monome schematic, Mormo: fly-on-the-wall view of track in progress

01/05/07 + nagrom

Yeah, CC, I'm not sure I buy that. I've never had any inclination to believe in God, nor have any of my friends. In fact, I can't think of a single person I know older than 20 that actually believes in God.

Recent blogs: Teenage Rave Mix, NeXT-step, Interview: Mark N./Bloody Fist Records

01/05/07 + Squeal

nagrom- I agree with a lot of what you said. Except the bit about us someday completing the puzzle, i.e. learning everything. I tend to think that our uncertain state will always be with us.

Recent blogs: Take this job (school) and SHOVE IT

01/05/07 + everamzah

squeal: our state of "uncertainly" will be with us for as long as we try to describe reality with physical means only. it won't be until we start using our consciousness more freely that we understand the nature of things.

Recent blogs: Some Abstract Combination, Periodic #em411 reminder, it's on now

01/05/07 + everamzah

nagrom said: "Yeah, CC, I'm not sure I buy that. I've never had any inclination to believe in God, nor have any of my friends. In fact, I can't think of a single person I know older than 20 that actually believes in God."

what does that tell u about ur own reality? that _should_ tell u that that's who u associate with. obviously, these people exists, whether or not you perceive them. if u were a christian, my dear friend, u would know more christians.

Recent blogs: Some Abstract Combination, Periodic #em411 reminder, it's on now

edited: Jan 05 2007 + everamzah

cbit said: "The contact we all share with this real world enables us to say things like 'i believe that when i drop this pencil it will fall to the ground'. Losing contact with the real world = madness."

u make this assumtion that "losing contact" with the real world = madness. but truthfully, the only way to lose contact, is if you die. and even then you will still be connected. u assume that a sort of psychic or mental wandering puts u out of place... but it is only because of ur own personal fears and beliefs that this is so _FOR U_.... however it is not so for me. and it is not so for many others. many others, like myself, are not afraid of the nonphysical world. we grant it validity. u say, if it is not physical it does not exist. u don't grant ur dreams validity. but that does not make it so for _anyone except yourself_ - this is what bsr means by subjective reality. you create your own reality based on your beliefs, expectations, and desires. and you get what u concentrate on.

edit: fixed quote

Recent blogs: Some Abstract Combination, Periodic #em411 reminder, it's on now

01/06/07 + nagrom

everamzah... i have respect for people who choose to live with those assumptions, they seem to be happy, but there's no real evidence to lead me to believe that. it's just sort of a decision some people make...

I'm not a big fan of arbitrary decisions. They don't make sense to me.
Sure, you can grant credibility to your dreams, but remember it's you granting the credibility. Your dreams don't have inherent credibility, nor does this non-physicality thing you speak of. You may be able to shift your perception to include aether (dualism) as reality, but you're shaping your reality in that case.
My goal is not to shape reality and to see reality as it is.

BTW, my reply to Celeb... had nothing to do with whether there are Christians or not. He was asserting that humans need religion. I was countering by saying that where I live, people don't need religion and we get along fine.

Recent blogs: Teenage Rave Mix, NeXT-step, Interview: Mark N./Bloody Fist Records

01/06/07 + nagrom

You almost act as if you know that non-physicality is reality for a fact.

You don't know that. You believe that.

I know there's physical reality. I can see it, touch, measure it, and so can everybody else, in the same way. Now, maybe all of our human senses are coordinating together to fool us, or we're part of some huge decision web the decides what reality is for us, but... that seems a bit egotistical to me.

Truthfully, I guess nobody will ever know for sure, but I choose the credible sounding philosophies over the (albeit useful) "whacked out" newage (rhymes with sewage) ideas. (hehe, pardon my prejudice, I kid)

Recent blogs: Teenage Rave Mix, NeXT-step, Interview: Mark N./Bloody Fist Records

01/06/07 + datathinner

i h8 wayne dyer.
>:|
h8. thats right.

Recent blogs: Obesity and Farm Subsidies, hey! its my studio, mackie satellite

01/06/07 + everamzah

what are you so afraid of nagrom?

Recent blogs: Some Abstract Combination, Periodic #em411 reminder, it's on now

01/06/07 + everamzah

annnnyways, we are consciousness. physical reality is one facet of all that is. people know there's more to life that what meets the eye. people know that life doesn't stop at the skin. this is inherent within all of us. and ya, religion has been used to describe this very poorly in the last 2,000 years. and yes, religion has done much harm. however, technology has done much harm. science has done much harm. modern medicine has done much harm.

but i'm not saying any of this was unnecessary or wrong either. i'm saying there's more to life. i'm saying that we can heal ourselves if we trust ourselves, if we only knew the power of our being. i'm saying we can get over our petty wars if we trust ourselves. i'm saying that we create our reality, and we should act accordingly. that's all. ;)

Recent blogs: Some Abstract Combination, Periodic #em411 reminder, it's on now

edited: Jan 06 2007 + bsr

morgan: 'You almost act as if you know that non-physicality is reality for a fact.

You don't know that. You believe that. '

come on. is the converse not completely the same for you? it's your belief that the world is the way you think it is - and that'll change over the years.

'My goal is not to shape reality and to see reality as it is. ' - thats what buddhists aim for. and me. difference between you and me seems to be the whole objective/subjective angle - being inside the system means you can never be completely objective.

01/06/07 + everamzah

ohhhhhhhhh ya morgan is nogram backwards! LOL

ya once u observe something u effectively affect it,.. er something

Recent blogs: Some Abstract Combination, Periodic #em411 reminder, it's on now

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