Electronic Music 411 - Doing the band thing

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Doing the band thing

StoreTags: bands, collaboration

Author: mrpanda on January 17 2007

Viewed 5773 times. 9 people liked this blog. You can rate it below if you haven't already.

People who enjoyed reading this: PAWEL, mulletballet, LogicFray, utofbu, electrodan, Roshi, jcd, zfigz, prugelknaben

--> As an artist, i've always considered myself more of a composer than a musician. At the same time, I like the idea of working with instruments in real time. It has a much more organic feeling to me, and the slightly chaotic nature of it makes the music feel much more alive for me as well.

I've started adopting guitar and the like into my own work which has always been fine. I've also tried (unsuccessfully) several times to collaborate with others and "start a band", but it just never seems to work for some reason. I get the feeling that I just don't know how to communicate my ideas well enough, because I have no real experience playing instruments along with others. I try and explain things in terms of mood, color, brightness, and tone which more traditional musicians just don't seem to comprehend, at least not to the extent that's needed. They want specific notes and chords, which I'm not familiar enough with to give. Collaborations with just me and another person seem to work ok for a song or two, but then it just falls apart. Three people, i've started to not even bother with at all, cause I just get the feeling it's failed before it's started.

Has anyone else run into this problem before? Did you find a way to work around it? Any tips for someone like me, about how I can communicate my ideas more easily without coming off as bossy or complaintive?

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Comments

1 | 2 | 3

01/18/07 + ejectorset

seems like you are spending too much time thinking about your approach and open mindedness vs. the closemindedness of everyone else, and not enough time talking to other musicians and tryin to find the right people to collab with.

i definately know far more guitarists, bass players, etc that are very open minded, abstract and experimental (yes, everyone has noticed what the power drill does close to the pickups on the guitar man) than ones that are close minded about such things.

Recent blogs: Max MSP CC Seq, adventures in blogging, I cares

01/18/07 + mrpanda

Note the "sometimes". I'm not saying this is always the case. There just seems to be a pattern to do with lack of communication, and I've recognized that. I'm not saying in broad terms that musicians are incapable of thinking outside the box, or that people who simply write music always do think outside of the box. That would be silly to assume and incorrect.

For you to assume that i'm not allowing other collaborators to have a say in the outcome of the music is also false. Obviously, I care enough about the input of others to ask these questions, and I think as whole, writing music should be a democratic process. The problem comes when trying to actually make progress.

Is it better to develop an open forum on which everyone can suggest their ideas, and what's the best way to do that? Or is it better to know technical terms and just orchestrate? I prefer the former, but it's not always easy to get everyones attention in a situation like that. Perhaps it goes back to the simple compatibility issue, and communication is just a symptom of that problem.

Recent blogs: Broken PC leads to interesting things, Down In June, Doing the band thing

01/18/07 + zfigz

I think you need to realize that the best ideas won't always come when the other piece of the puzzle (i.e. band members) aren't in the room with you. I think learning a bit a theory might help you comprehend what's in your head to others. If not that, then maybe you should work with others, but when it comes to the creative process of making your bits and them making theirs, do it separately. Then once you have all the meat to your soon to be track you come together have a cup of tea or whatever is your fancy and get to work on constructing it as a coherent piece of music.

I'd say start off with a single person and then move up once you've been together with them for a while. It'll be much easier than starting off with 2-3-4 peeps. Start simple and build your way up...same as anything.

Recent blogs: Techno Face, I'm totally flaking out..., Djing at work...

edited: Jan 18 2007 + mrpanda

edit: see below.

Recent blogs: Broken PC leads to interesting things, Down In June, Doing the band thing

edited: Jan 18 2007 + astroid

democracy and music rarely, if ever, work.

time-share dictatorships are better.

best of all is to do 100% yourself and then be open to having it changed.

you have to start with something good, and that usually doesn't happen by commitee. even jamming, if someone doesn't step up and say "lets repeat that part," nothing happens. this process can be done without any words or extra-musical communication, but that takes being steeped in each other's playing and the style in which you're playing.

Recent blogs: blog friends?, california gay-friendly folk looky here, if tubgirl were immortal

01/18/07 + mrpanda

zifz said: "I'd say start off with a single person and then move up once you've been together with them for a while. It'll be much easier than starting off with 2-3-4 peeps. Start simple and build your way up...same as anything."

I was thinking along those lines myself. Its easier to get the ball rolling from a solid foundation and then grow from there.

I also agree, that learning some more technical terms certainly couldn't hurt, not just with explaining myself, but also with being able to better parse other people's ideas without getting lost. Like I said, I know some, but certainly not enough to get very far.

That approach though seems as if it might be a good starting point, similar to what mulletballet mentioned as well. It might be a little bit misjointed at first, but once you're comfortable with the style of the people you working with, discussing it directly might be easier to digest.

I think perhaps looking back on it though, my bad experiences probably have alot to do with trying to force myself to work with people i'm not compatible with, at least in my case.

Hopefully all this will be helpful for others who have encountered the same problem. I know I can't be the only one.

Recent blogs: Broken PC leads to interesting things, Down In June, Doing the band thing

01/18/07 + ejectorset

it just really seems like, and i do this a lot too, like you are spending more time thinking about it and less time collaborating. the amount of time i spend thinking about and talking about making music compared to the time i spend making it, is um ... depressing. please dont feel im attacking you.

that is the only assumption i am making here.

it could be as simple as communication barriers, or it could be the wrong people. i've found though with the right people there aren't communication barriers.

i think the former of your two methods is far better. the latter never ends up going well. at least for me.

i would definately suggest tryin to find some em-ers in your area. at least you know everyone on here with varying degrees of musical ability/backgrounds are probably open for expermentations.

i sincerly wish you good luck as well, there really can be some magic that comes from making music or exploring musical ideas in realtime with someone else off the cuff.

Recent blogs: Max MSP CC Seq, adventures in blogging, I cares

01/18/07 + utofbu

ASTROID said: "best of all is to do 100% yourself and then be open to having it changed."

HERE HERE.

I propose a toast. to being prepared!! When you can bring an item to the table with vision so that it might be ripped apart by participants, the result can be breathtaking. But all the same it is good to put in the preperatory work for it to be properly minced.

Recent blogs: Just a friendly reminder, i have been restricted from posting for a time..., Protect and serve

edited: Jan 18 2007 + mrpanda

ejectorset said: "it just really seems like, and i do this a lot too, like you are spending more time thinking about it and less time collaborating"

Haha, yeah I'd say that's pretty accurate. My apologies, I misunderstood. I do spend a lot of time thinking about music, and sometimes it's worth all the thought that goes into it, but ultimately, when I'm working by myself, I'll just sit down and write without even thinking about what I'm doing. And sometimes in the process of that, i'll come up with something and say "wow that was interesting. I wish I had about 8 arms so I could do this, this and this too", but then you sit down with others sometimes, and you just don't have the chemistry with them as you do with yourself. They seem disinterested in your ideas, and you wonder whether it's cause your ideas are boring, or if you're just not explaining them right, and it's just kind of a let down. Very frustrating.

The best analogy I can think of is how sometimes masturbating is more satisfying than a boring lover. Maybe that's a bigger part of the equation than I initially assumed.

Recent blogs: Broken PC leads to interesting things, Down In June, Doing the band thing

edited: Jan 18 2007 + mrpanda

astroid said: "you have to start with something good, and that usually doesn't happen by commitee. even jamming, if someone doesn't step up and say "lets repeat that part," nothing happens."

Man I know how that goes. Definately another major part of my frustrations in the past.

Recent blogs: Broken PC leads to interesting things, Down In June, Doing the band thing

01/18/07 + zfigz

*slams table with hand*

Bravo, and a magnificent toast it was. And now for another toast...to never assume!!! Always question the situation, but not violently, rather, compassionately. When you've an idea a cookin' let it out and don't assume those around you know what you're talking about. Continually express yourself...hell, have a box of crayons and stencils just in case someone needs to draw the direction they want the piece to go in. And so! to preparedness and the absence of assumption!

Recent blogs: Techno Face, I'm totally flaking out..., Djing at work...

01/18/07 + ejectorset

"mrpanda" said: "sometimes masturbating is more satisfying than a boring lover"

quote of the fuckin year. someone needs to set that to the topic in teh em-chat channel.

Recent blogs: Max MSP CC Seq, adventures in blogging, I cares

01/18/07 + utofbu

Im suprised nobody has said anything about a donkey punch yet.

Recent blogs: Just a friendly reminder, i have been restricted from posting for a time..., Protect and serve

01/18/07 + mulletballet

another note, our vocalist insists that 'if I start the lyrics, I finish the lyrics - that shouldn't be done as a team' - (she is the only one providing words, anyway) - but still -- the point being -- I do the music, turn it over to her for lyrics, then a bass player comes in -- and we make it work from there, and that works for us -- I think we'd all sit around getting frustrated if we sat down and said, "Hey, let's write a song..."

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