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'A history of violence' : Stephen Pinker
StoreTags: modernity, reason, pinker, violence
Author: cbit on April 01 2007
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Interesting article, i thought:
link
stephen pinker said: "The decline of killing and cruelty poses several challenges to our ability to make sense of the world. To begin with, how could so many people be so wrong about something so important? Partly, it's because of a cognitive illusion: We estimate the probability of an event from how easy it is to recall examples. Scenes of carnage are more likely to be relayed to our living rooms and burned into our memories than footage of people dying of old age. Partly, it's an intellectual culture that is loath to admit that there could be anything good about the institutions of civilization and Western society. Partly, it's the incentive structure of the activism and opinion markets: No one ever attracted followers and donations by announcing that things keep getting better. And part of the explanation lies in the phenomenon itself. The decline of violent behavior has been paralleled by a decline in attitudes that tolerate or glorify violence, and often the attitudes are in the lead. As deplorable as they are, the abuses at Abu Ghraib and the lethal injections of a few murderers in Texas are mild by the standards of atrocities in human history. But, from a contemporary vantage point, we see them as signs of how low our behavior can sink, not of how high our standards have risen."
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edited: Apr 03 2007
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Jetsom
,.,.,.,.,.,.,.,.,.,.,.,.,.,,;,;,.,.
04/01/07
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morgberg
violence increases profits
04/01/07
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jogn
Just in case anyone is wondering, the rest of the Century of the self series is also pretty depressing.
edited: Apr 01 2007
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cbit
violence increases profits
only rarely. violence is very expensive (in all senses, on both a personal and state level).
Essentially, sinister capitalism/consumerism forces notwithstanding, i think we're better off now than we ever have been. I think that internalised aggression, unpleasant and damaging as that may be, is many times less damaging in terms of causing suffering than aggression in the form of physical acts of violence against people.
04/01/07
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jogn
oh boy ..... nuns......
04/01/07
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jogn
lesbian nuns ....
04/01/07
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astroid
all human societies are experiments. best never to forget that.
edited: Apr 03 2007
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Jetsom
,.,.,.,.,.,.,.,.,.,.,.,.,.,,;,;,.,.
edited: Apr 02 2007
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cbit
ok. i'm not completely sure about it. Of course its difficult to know how to compare the two.. how much internalised aggression is it fair to weigh against an incident of mansalughter carried out in a rage?.. i don't know. Also , it doesnt seem practical to try to measure suffering either. So this can only remain a hunch.
Here's some thoughts that might help explain why i came to this idea:
Physical violence has a destabilising effect on societies (i'm not including juridical 'violence' used to enforce societal agreements).
Beyond a certain threshold of the incidence of violent activity seems to create a cycle that's very difficult to break free of (what we see if we look at failed states, eg iraq judging from the way things are going)
If it were somehow possible for the people in such a situation for whom killing is a normal part of life, to not act on the thoughts that would normally lead them to kill or act violently it would allow for a situation in which the basic societal infrastructure could grow. This of course, would greatly alleviate the suffering of the people living in such a situation who had previously lived with all kinds of hardships (Fear of being attacked, fear for the safety of their family, mourning for loved ones who have been killed, lack of essential supplies (food water etc)).
As Pinker points out, the further back we go in the history of the west, the more the situation looked like the 'frontier' scenario above.
edited: Apr 02 2007
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cbit
Maybe I'm just making assumptions myself now, hearsay about 'bottling up'. What happens when a whole species are at it though? Most people are.
You asked what happens when most people bottle it up instead of acting on it? - (i think by the way that you're creating a false dichotomy here)
What happens is that you get to live in a world that's very comfortable in comparison to what we know of conditions in previous centuries. Things like science, medicine, philosophy art have a chance to develop. The average person's understanding of the world they live in increases. All this good stuff because we don't have to be preoccupied with defending our village/town/farm from our murderous neighbours who will kill us to steal our food if we let them.
edited: Apr 02 2007
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cbit
I just think the thing of violence is obviously much more encompassing & ignoring 'categories' (that you've determined) of it to fit your theory isn't that bright (with respect). Do you see why I think that?
Yes. I think you're thinking of a much broader sense of the word 'violence'. It's one that i think is too elastic to be interesting.
When i've used the world violence in this thread i took my lead from the scope Pinker seems to be using in his article. Here's how i'd describe it:
An attack carried out by a person on another (or others) intended to inflict bodily damage.
04/02/07
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Jetsom
I just typed a reply but deleted it by mistake. sorry I don't belong on this blog.
04/02/07
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Jetsom
Sorry, that was a bit fragile of me :-)
I do feel like I can't really get involved in this here though, there's no point. So I don't want to do it.
Right, I'm off to go bang rocks together...
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