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People who enjoyed reading this: Roshi, astroid, jogn, bla, monkvolcano, breakscience, tapirA, Otterfan, hecanjog, lematt, daswesen, Jetsom, linde
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yes, here i am proclaiming my love for you, sweet, sweet frequency modulation. yet i have a dilemna. i used to have operator when i had live but as i no longer have that program i no longer have an fm synth at my disposal. i have searched the interweb and found a few, vopm and crystal to name a few, but i have yet to come across anything that i really like. i have been toying with the idea of purchasing max/msp for some time for multiple different things that i want to make. and now the thought arises of its fm synthesis capabilities. now i know that it is possible as i have seen some patches of that sort on the internet, namely the autechre one on recordlabelrecords, but i wonder if it is something that i could compare with something like the yamaha fs1r. so here is a list of pros and cons that i can see right now for both products.
max/msp-
pros-
i can make more than an fm synth, ie i can make my wildest desires come to life
it is well supported
a massive database of objects and user input can be tapped into
cons-
making this synth as complex as the fs1r will be time consuming and may be too cpu intensive. but it will be fun for me to learn and create it none the less
i will have less pretty lights to stare at in the dark.
fs1r-
pros-
dedicated hardware
a sound that stirs up passion from my loins. kidding... kind of
pretty lights to stare at
sexy filters
formant filters (can this be done in max/msp?)
cons-
hardly supported anymore
user forums have turned into ghost towns
the software editors seem to have disappeared off the internet
there is only one stereo out
right now i am leaning towards max/msp as i think that it can somewhat faithfully recreate a fm synth as complex as the fs1r and i can make other things with it. do any of you fine folks have any words of wisdom that may help me make a more informed decision? should i go with max/msp or are there secret treasures to be found on the fs1r that cannot be recreated in anyway? thanks everyone for taking the time to read this.
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06/01/07
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Psyingo
get a tx81z. problem solved.
06/01/07
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djugel
or even a FB01
06/01/07
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seanh
a friend of mine was just over here last weekend showing me some stuff in max/msp, it is a pretty badass environment for sequencing and synthesizing sounds. it is a bit complex and would have quite a learning curve. but lets face it, the fs1r has the same thing going for it as far as learning curve. the fs1r is one apealing machine, FM synthesis and formant filters, two great tastes that go great together. i want one. but max/msp would be more versitile, add jitter to it and you can do video as well.
i would like to get an fs1r at some point, but i think realisticly max/msp would be a better choice. i bet you could find an FM synth writen in max on the internet somewhere. and i can't see it not having formant filters. but ohh, fs1r.
06/01/07
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monkvolcano
i'm kind of in the same boat as u. A friend of mine gave me his DX 27, but it's kind of lame.. or maybe i'm just lame programming it. One day I want to get a proper FM synth, and it does seem that the ones u mentioned are the best choices.
Personally i think taht I would go with the FS1r, because I would prefer to have the limitations of it. At this point, max/msp still seems too open ended for me. I just think that i'd be doing endless tweaking and what not. I wanna give myself a few more years on traditional synths before i go to some crazy digital modular.
06/01/07
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Psyingo
monk, no offense but you just suck at programming.
06/01/07
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Jim
Ultimately, I think it's not worth it to get Max/MSP to "reinvent the wheel." That is, if you want to make an fsr1 in Max, just get an fsr1 instead. Otherwise, it would be too much of a pain in the ass and probably not be as good.
I've had more experience with pd than with max, so maybe this is off-base, but there are some other cons to things like max. For instance, in pd, there's no easy-to-implement preset management as far as I could tell, which is kind of a drag, although not a deal-killer. The larger point is that things like this, like preset managers, are boring to me and I don't care about knowing how they work, but I would have to in order to make a fsr1 in max.
I never took the real plunge into max because, for me, I found myself saying, I wish I could have something just like Live, but slightly different. In the long run, I just prefer to learn Live better rather than spend the time programming my own thing. I dunno, I suppose I remain kind of a doofus when it comes to the real theory behind dsp and how my synths work on a deep level, but I've made more awesome tunes instead.
06/01/07
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astroid
i don't think you'd be able to program the whole fs1r into max, unless you had a very smoking hot computer, and you didnt let the computer do anything else. i know people have made attempts to clone the architecture in the g2 (more or less), and it's just too big of a synth.
also, you could sell the fs1r. you cant sell max/msp.
that said, you could make something waaaay more flexible in max. i find synth making to be really rewarding. you can draw your own envelopes, and make matrices of controls, sequencers, change the filters, and assign control to everything.
06/01/07
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breakscience
fm8 is pretty fun, and flexible enough within a easy interface. might want to demo it.
06/02/07
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tapirA
I second fm8.
06/02/07
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monkvolcano
hahahaha...
yes i suck..
*sniff sniff*
06/02/07
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provaznik
keep the ideas flowing gents. although at this point in time i am kind of considering buying both and saving up a little longer for them. if i do purchase a fs1r are there any decent editors out there for it? would sounddiver do the trick?
06/02/07
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dach
I'm with Jim when it comes to max/msp. read what he said several times! to quote astroid, you can draw your own envelopes, and make matrices of controls, sequencers, change the filters, and assign control to everything. Normally though, that's about all you get done.. there's never any time left over to make music or sounds with it.
06/02/07
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foxystoat
This looks to be a good cross-platform editor:
FS1R Editor
edited: Jun 02 2007
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hecanjog
my 2¢:
• building a complex fm synth in msp will be a longer, more challenging process than learning how to use a dedicated hardware synth, and is going to force you to worry about things like optimization that you might not have to worry about with a prebuilt setup.
• 'reinventing the wheel' when it comes to max/msp i've found is an incredible way to learn - more often than not I end up re-writing from scratch little patches and larger patches when I'm working on something new, rather than recycling my old patches. development is a creative process in max/msp and soooo rewarding - it's like instrument building, and you have the luxury of being able to field test and practice with your instrument as you develop it. this a really unique and rewarding way of working in my experience.
• i understand and sympathize with the 'develop all day and never make music' argument about max/msp. you're going to have to spend a lot of time with development and things that don't seem musical at all, especially at first. as someone who uses max as a primary tool for live performance and studio work this has completely changed the way I work and think. i'm sure it's a different experience for most, but working with max/msp has made computer music a much more performative and organic process for me. the homework I have to do to make an idea work is sometimes frustrating, and almost always challenging - but every problem that I produce a solution for ends up shaping the way I approach the next problem, and the piece/project itself. in my experience I'm more productive than ever with max/msp. there's always a danger of spending too much time on extramusical things with max/msp, but you'll find that everywhere else as well - and for my part, the freedom that comes with a completely open ended system more than makes up for the time I might lose by not just going for a prebuilt solution. it doesn't always make sense to reinvent the wheel, but it's always going to be a learning experience, imho.
• you'll start developing your standalone FM synth, learn several dozen new things along the way, make some happy mistakes, and end up with something special that behaves completely differently along the way - that's the real value of that approach I think.
i wrote way too much - but, if you just want a sick, solid FM synth, go with the hardware, it's a straight line to what you're looking for. but max/msp will take you to some really worthwhile tangents along the way. :-)
06/02/07
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hecanjog
couple more thoughts 
• it's going to take a few years to get where you want to be with max/msp - everything worthwhile takes time though. :-) if you were just learning to play guitar, it would be the same thing!
• max/msp has some very flexible preset management pattr even does preset interpolation - so you can do things like, grab snapshots of lets say the settings on your nifty new msp FM synth as you play it, and then later on (or right away!) morph fluidly between any of those points by turning a knob, moving a slider, grabbing the mouse, deflecting a laser through a jug of mountain dew, whatevs.
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