Electronic Music 411 - oink is dead - interpol, jail, oink, dead, tears

i don't understand how they consider oink to have been 'extremely lucrative' considering membership was free and all downloads were too. it's pointless closing these sites anyway, another one will pop-up soon enough.

Recent blogs: Download E.P, Cloudcroft Mirror 7inch

10/23/07 + Zanf

The issue is not that they are making a difference about stopping these sites - it is about maintaining the illusion that they are making a difference.

Its exactly the same with the fallacy that was "The War On Drugs". Every other night on the news was stories about busts of major drug dealers and how they were stemming the flow of drugs and yet I knew that I could walk out of my house and around the corner and still score anytime night or day.

Recent blogs: Facial Visualiser, KazooKeylele!, When the poor can't eat....

10/23/07 + cbit

Maintaining the illusion sounds right. But saying that its pointless to close it down because other similar sites will pop up leads to problems: No matter how many human traffickers are busted others will take their place, so is it pointless to go after them?

Recent blogs: Song for Two Mega Sites, Probably no God: buses in london, My Arduinome (monome clone)

10/23/07 + qwerty1

reaktor != sex slave

10/23/07 + cbit

point == missed ;)

Recent blogs: Song for Two Mega Sites, Probably no God: buses in london, My Arduinome (monome clone)

10/23/07 + Unknownforce

ah well, oink banned me* so good riddance i say :P

*seemingly no one wanted any of the albums i was getting...

Recent blogs: Cable complaint, Ever bumped into an old friend from school?, Stfu photos - finally!

10/23/07 + qwerty1

cbit said: "point == missed ;)"

analogy == shite ;)

10/23/07 + theflame

never heard of it, so its not a great loss to me: but now that i AM a record label I spose I oughta be pleased about this maybe?

Recent blogs: Need Help For Charity Single, Gig In A Squat, Found Sound

10/23/07 + sohcahtoa

Ahh sucky poo. There was lots of great stuff on oink that's next to impossible to find elsewhere, legitimately or otherwise.

Recent blogs: Juno-106 ups and downs, George Carlin, Happy 606 day!

10/23/07 + tmns

hmm yeah good point about maintaining the illusion zanf, but cbit, i think there's a big difference between illegally downloading music and human trafficking, perhaps the money they use shutting down sites like oink and taking single mothers to court for downloading a few albums would be better spent on the latter.

Recent blogs: Download E.P, Cloudcroft Mirror 7inch

10/23/07 + Zanf

dont be too hard on cbit, he has just been sucked in by F.A.C.T/industry adverts like these, over the years ;) link

Recent blogs: Facial Visualiser, KazooKeylele!, When the poor can't eat....

10/23/07 + cbit

tmns, you're missing the point i was making (like qwerty did too). I guess it was predictable that someone would think that i was commenting on the relative seriousness of illegal downloading and human trafficking--that wasn't the point of the analogy.

Here's the essence of the logic you use when you say "it's pointless closing these sites anyway, another one will pop-up soon enough.". Please note that this argument doesn't involve a value judgement about activity X:

P1. Person A doesn't like activity X
P2. If activity X is stopped, soon other activities that person A finds equally unacceptable will take its place
C. therefore it's a waste of Person A's time to try to stop activity X

My point is only that this is a fallacious argument; which is obvious as soon as you substitute in activities that strike us as much more serious. eg. human trafficking.

Recent blogs: Song for Two Mega Sites, Probably no God: buses in london, My Arduinome (monome clone)

edited: Oct 23 2007 + Zanf

The argument holds less water when you apply it again to, say the drugs model:

Raiding and arresting dealers does very little except create a temporary scarcity, push up prices and thus, in all probability, increase the amount users have to steal, if they feed their habit this way and so having dramatic effects on the overall community. The better method for reducing overall drug use would be to remove the user from the equation: Improve their quality of life, negate their dependency on drugs and the market would collapse.

If the record and movie industries hadn't started treating their end consumers [and their artists] like shit then they wouldn't be going all out to fight anyone and everyone. They have noone but themselves to blame for alienating their whole user base and a fair amount of people in the industry.

You cant really compare the two models of intellectual property theft ['stealing' a digital copy of something] and actually trafficking real people. This is where all the industry's arguments fall flat on their faces. Its not theft - its unauthorised replication.

Recent blogs: Facial Visualiser, KazooKeylele!, When the poor can't eat....

10/23/07 + mlbot

You are all off your nut. Drugs and sex are things people are compelled to acquire, despite morals, consequences, or whathaveyou.

Music on the other hand, is not.

Fear or retribution, even just the plain knowledge that "yes, d'loading copyrighted music is illegal" could potentially keep the average person from doing it.

Recent blogs: I [heart] translated reviews, Dumb Machine LP - Maces of Disruption, Puppy

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