| StoreTags: interpol, jail, oink, dead, tears
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10/23/07
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cbit
zanf said: "You cant really compare the two models of intellectual property theft ['stealing' a digital copy of something] and actually trafficking real people."
I wasn't comparing the two. I was using the example of trafficking to examine the claim "it's pointless closing these sites anyway, another one will pop-up soon enough."--which has nothing to do with the ethics of dloading.
10/23/07
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sohcahtoa
Logical fallacies aside, do you see any point in closing a site like oink when another site offering the same services will be ready to take its place by the time I finish typing this sentence?
10/23/07
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mlbot
Yes.
I think many people thought it was legal to d'load music for free.
Still others thought it was risk-free
I think a little fear and bullying will have an effect not on the supply, but the demand posed by average Joe-interweb user and especially average-Joe's parents.
10/23/07
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xtobal
"Recorded music sales fell by more than a third internationally in the last six years, and independent studies show that a major factor in this decline has been internet users accessing peer-to-peer networks to steal music online."
Independent studies? Well I did an independent study myself, and concluded that another major factor in this decline has been the fact that too much music being released these days is absolute shit.
10/23/07
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sohcahtoa
I see what you're saying about spreading a little fear in the minds of average-joe-interweb, but I have a hard time believing anyone using a site like oink was average Joe-interweb-user who figured it was legal and/or risk free.
10/23/07
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ignatius
xtobal said: ""Recorded music sales fell by more than a third internationally in the last six years, and independent studies show that a major factor in this decline has been internet users accessing peer-to-peer networks to steal music online."
Independent studies? Well I did an independent study myself, and concluded that another major factor in this decline has been the fact that too much music being released these days is absolute shit."
plus... they only recently began including downloads (itunes etc) in sales figures. so .. they need to add a billion sales via downloads in their figures.
10/23/07
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djugel
"They have noone but themselves to blame for alienating their whole user base."
what's that mean? explain??
10/23/07
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ignatius
personally i could give 2 shits about oink. i've never used a file sharing app for music. i've downloaded a movie or two but i feel too guilty even thinking about downloading tracks w/o paying for them... unless it's the beatles (or some other band that doesn't really need anymore money) or something that is out of print and not available for download. i don't mind paying for good music. probably all beside the point though. i still think that file sharing exposes a lot of people to music they would otherwise never hear. it's double edged sword i guess.
someone should make a file sharing app for stuff that is creative commons or outside copyright laws etc. library of congress, unsigned artists etc.
i also tend to agree about the majors dropping the ball and also releasing lot's of crap. that's what happens when you put accountants and lawyers in charge.
edited: Oct 23 2007
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cbit
soch said: "I see what you're saying about spreading a little fear in the minds of average-joe-interweb, but I have a hard time believing anyone using a site like oink was average Joe-interweb-user who figured it was legal and/or risk free."
sure, but if sites like oink were _never_ closed down and the idea spread that illegal dloads were officially illegal but in practice tolerated--then there'd be an increase in 'joe-interweb-users' who did start using equivalent services. A 'bust' sends a clear message to joe interweb that this stuff is still regarded as illegal in the full sense, which will discourage a big group of people from using the sites.
10/23/07
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djugel
"i still think that file sharing exposes a lot of people to music they would otherwise never hear"
I actually don't agree with this... except wait... I do ... unless you change "music" to "artists" ... then I don't agree at all.
10/23/07
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sohcahtoa
cbit said: "sure, but if sites like oink were _never_ closed down and the idea spread that illegal dloads were officially illegal but in practice tolerated--then there'd be an increase in 'joe-interweb-users' who did start using equivalent services. A 'bust' sends a clear message to joe interweb that this stuff is still regarded as illegal in the full sense, which will discourage a big group of people from using the sites."
In agreeing with what you've said (and I do agree), I've arrived at a confusing conclusion...busting sites like oink ensures they'll be around in the future.
10/23/07
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mlbot
djugel said: ""They have noone but themselves to blame for alienating their whole user base."
what's that mean? explain??"
perhaps this refers to the fact that 4 major record record companies, shortly before internet downloads exploded in number, were found guilty of Price-Fixing... meaning they colluded as a monopoly to drive the price of CDs artificially above market value.
They were stealing from us. So perhaps a few people felt no guilt in stealing back.
10/23/07
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appollo51
The industry does it to themselves by giving advances to labels months before officially releasing music to the public.
They want the hype though from the underground blog community, to create a groundswell/buzz by the time of release.
Plus, they have their minions riddling the streets trying to gain a peek into underground youth culture, so that they can eventually feed it to one of their own,
label it as the next wave of new music, all the while the real artists starve, waiting for their kick at the can. It's a give and take. Being in the industry is like shaking hands with the devil. You play the game by their rules, hoping that in the end you've escaped with your sanity and integrity.
10/23/07
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djugel
"They were stealing from us. So perhaps a few people felt no guilt in stealing back."
hahahaha...
10/23/07
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clarkq
its not to fight the pirates. its to fight the independent labels and artists people discovered on oink. why compete when you can have world domination?
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