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When I first heard about the antivaccination lobby I thought it was some kind of weird intertubes joke. I mean, they were just playing, some kind of "save the whales and polio" joke, right? Right?
Wrong. They are dead serious.
And now it seems Donald Trump and Jenny McCarthy have joined the fray, claiming that vaccines cause autism.
A claim that has been shown to be incorrect.
A super hero team of paranoid new age scam artist homeopathy "remedy" selling pricks, the crappiest hair on tv and an mtv hasbeen, and they cannot even come up with some new meritless claim? What the fuck?
Sorry for ranting, the whole thing just gets me riled up.
And now back to the regular stuff, paper geese, smapples etc. | |
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01/04/08
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deltasleep
Breakscience, I'm proud of you for having such a rational approach to managing your child's special needs. All you can really do is your best, and play things a day at a time. My 8 year old brother in law has Down's Syndrome, and my wife's parents are completely irrational about it. They don't talk to their other daughters about it, and think that they don't know.(daughters are 14 and 16!) My wife is a speech therapist, and she deals with a lot of denial.
You might also be interested to know that my wife has worked with a couple of interesting groups of boys with autism. One was a family in the nashville area with 7 sons, ALL of whom had autistic spectrum disorders. They and a couple of other families like them are part of a study on a genetic basis for ASD.
She also worked near Arnold Air Force Base in a community that was populated mainly by military engineers. The engineer population had a notably higher rate of ASD, and was also being heavily studied. Their is a theory thats floated around for some time that autism is really an extreme version of the difference between male and female brains, and I suspect this is the direct that research is approaching from.
I think that as we study the autistic spectrum further, we will ditch the term "autism" and begin to understand and identify a lot of actual disorders which autism is a symptom of(which is the case for Rett if I remember right). Often times in science and medicine umbrella terms like "autism" exist for a relatively short period of time, and are then broken down. This was the case for terms like "mania" and "hysteria" for psychiatry.
01/04/08
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cultofzoee
Hi. I'm new to the site.
My wife and I have two children. Our first got all the shots right away as per the normal schedule and she is fine. This was five years ago before all this stuff started getting so much attention. With our son, the pediatricians we saw in California and Oregon (he was born in California and then we moved to Oregon) told us that we should space the shots out as far as possible. They said there was a genetic risk of autism in my family. They also said that some shots still have mercury and some don’t. Our son was slow to start talking. Once he finally started using some words around his second birthday, our pediatrician told us to hold off on the shots normally given at two years because “We don’t want to lose those words.”
Now, both pediatricians were careful to tell us that there is no scientific-empirical proof of a link, but they still suggested we space the shots out over months at a time as opposed to getting them all in burst of multiple shots at a single time. I haven’t done any research myself on this; I just know what the pediatricians said.
01/04/08
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bitmarch
breakscience: you are my hero
01/04/08
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bitmarch
cultofzee: I'd like to go up to your pediatrician and smack them up side the head. THERE'S NO FREAKING EVIDENCE.
like much fear mongering, this is motivated by other factors.
- people can get paid in court due to things like the VICP (http://www.hrsa.gov/vaccinecompensation/)
- and has beens like Jenny what's her name get face time on Oprah
01/04/08
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mlbot
Fear that you may kill your kids is a big niche industry.
Breakscience, you are my new hero too.
Cultofzee: bitmarch is a doctor, and while he can't diganose your children... well, from the few quotes you gave us I'd highly suggest a second and third opinion.
There is no evidence that vaccines cause autism (statistically insignificant correlations don't count, and lack of evidence that vaccines don't not cause autism doesn't count either). Vaccines can have side effects, and these are rare, but not vaccinating your children increases their risk of disease and death much much more.
And thanks crabster for this great blog, I was scared I was gonna be the sole "traditional medicine should be blindly mistrusted at all times" voice.
01/04/08
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deltasleep
" I was scared I was gonna be the sole "traditional medicine should be blindly mistrusted at all times" voice."
God, I was dreading that discussion too!
01/04/08
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bb01
bitmarch said: "cultofzee: I'd like to go up to your pediatrician and smack them up side the head. THERE'S NO FREAKING EVIDENCE."
so?
what that pediatrician told the patient was reasonably careful; the kid was to have the shots, only not all at once
bitmarch said: "like much fear mongering, this is motivated by other factors.
- people can get paid in court due to things like the VICP (http://www.hrsa.gov/vaccinecompensation/) "
thats evil ofcourse, and should not be taken into account when making up ones mind.
i do want to make a case for choice, excluding witchcraft and superstition
01/04/08
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crabster
mlbot, deltasleep: Really? Have I made such a bad impression? ;)
01/04/08
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bitmarch
actually I would argue that that pediatrician's approach was "unreasonably careful"
01/04/08
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crabster
Infection is a real threat, what they were careful about has not been proven, shown or even (as far as I know) even hinted at in actual studies. Though I'm drunk and has been known to talk out of my ass at times, so take my words with a grain (fistful?) of salt.
01/04/08
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bitmarch
and bb, I totally agree with you that our litigious society should not drive our decision making processes, and choice is a good thing 
but you can sure as hell bet that I am not going to listen to what Jenny Macart-whatever says on some talk show if she doesn't back up her claims with evidence.
01/04/08
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mlbot
The case for MMR "causing" autism is from one publication, where 11 children were the sample.
Eleven.
So, even if you ignore the fact that the hypothesis that a vaccine causes autism is based on a guess (and no proof, direct or indirect), that guess was based off of 11 children..
might as well have put forth a hypothesis based on treating zero children.
01/04/08
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mlbot
for a comparison, the WHI recently did a study on the impact of hormone replacement and alzheimer's and their sample size was 161,000
and those numbers weren't big enough to draw rigorously conclusive evidence.
01/04/08
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tantan
Eleven!
Fuck's sake.
I ate Taco Bell a week ago and this morning I had a headache when I woke up, I think there's a correlation.
01/04/08
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mlbot
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