|
Help defend science: flunked not expelled
Author: cbit on April 18 2008 Viewed 8186 times. 29 people liked this blog. You can rate it below if you haven't already.
People who enjoyed reading this: EsromCole, yghartsyrt, bodo, Zanf, Analog, Logo, hecanjog, crabster, bleen, license, Otterfan, minisystem, mlbot, Jetsom, subset, 11t1, zach, monty, Spark, SenorFrio, Fredo, ignatius, delete, tantan, p, tylth, jp, sAMsKi, flies
-->
Apologies, a completely non-music related post.
The creationist/ID friendly pseudo documentary called Expelled will be screening near you soon. In the film, Ben Stein claims that scientists critical of the theory of evolution are being silenced by the powers behind "big science". Through ham fisted montages the film also tries to establish a link between the theory of evolution and Nazism and other genocidal ideologies.
Christian fundamentalists are lobbying hard to promote this film, even offering incentives to school groups to go and see it.
A counter site has been launched by the national center for science education that lists, and refutes, the lies and important omissions of the expelled film.
Publishing hyperlinks to the expelled exposed site, using 'expelled' as the visible link text, will help make the counter site more visible in search engines, and help ensure that people really do hear 'both sides' of the story. If you can, please help out.
Here's a review of the film:
link
Digging this page will help spread the word too (there's a subtle digg link beneath this blog post)
edit: "help defend science" == shorthand for 'help protect people from being robbed of the chance to understand the scientific method, to understand the crucial importance of evidence based reason in evaluating truth claims, to understand the principles or critical thought, to appreciate the enormous weight of evidence in support of evolutionary theory.' | |
Comments
04/19/08
+
PM |
QUOTE |
PERMALINK |
REPORT
Jetsom
cbit said: " Jetsom said: " cbit said: "We are born as implicit atheists (having no knowledge of the concept of gods, and lacking belief in them)."
No Knowledge. So we're born in a state of not knowing? agnostia = not knowing."
We're born with no knowlegde of the concept of gods, yes. Just like we're born without knowledge of the concept of ipods."
I'll take that statement on face value. Agreed, well we're born without the knowledge gathered from the point where it is possible for us to begin recording knowledge. We inherit knowledge from our parents and our parents' parents though. I don't know what that includes other than eye colour, hereditary diseases and the usual things that spring to mind...that's a mystery (see my vague query in the previous post).
So the issue of knowing or not knowing appears to be more involved. So I refute that I am born an implicit atheist, because I don't know that. Atheism is something that you identify with if you decide to.
04/19/08
+
PM |
QUOTE |
PERMALINK |
REPORT
Jetsom
I find it hard cbit to start from the departure point that i AM something and to agree or disagree with that one concept. I prefer to start with what is? (or 'what am', if you prefer), it removes the initial obstacle ;)
edited: Apr 19 2008
+
PM |
QUOTE |
PERMALINK |
REPORT
cbit
So I refute that I am born an implicit atheist, because I don't know that.
Do you have similar doubts about whether you are born with knowledge of the concept of an ipod? If not, why are you unsure whether you are born with knowledge of the concept of gods?
Would examining the beliefs of kids raised in an athiestic home help settle it? If these kids had not been told about the idea of gods, but started to talk about the idea unprompted, then your doubts would be well founded. As far as i know, this hasn't happened though.
Atheism is something that you identify with if you decide to.
That's a truism. Whether or not you choose to self identify a certain way has no bearing on whether a label, used to mean something in particular, applies to you or not.
04/19/08
+
PM |
QUOTE |
PERMALINK |
REPORT
Jetsom
crabster said: "Jetsom: We are pattern seeking animals, just look at the face on mars people to see what we're capable of."
04/19/08
+
PM |
QUOTE |
PERMALINK |
REPORT
Jetsom
cbit said: " So I refute that I am born an implicit atheist, because I don't know that."
Do you have similar doubts about whether you are born with knowledge of the concept of an ipod? If not, why are you unsure whether you are born with knowledge of the concept of gods?
Would examining the beliefs of kids raised in an athietic home help settle it? If these kids had not been told about the idea of gods, but started to talk about the idea unprompted, then your doubts would be well founded. As far as i know, this doesn't happen though.
Atheism is something that you identify with if you decide to.
That's a truism. Whether or not you choose to self identify a certain way has no bearing on whether a label, used to mean something in particular, applies to you or not.
I am talking about knowledge gathered through evolution, the mind i have inherited. ipods weren't around when I was born. Are you trying to make me feel stupid? Just go with my stupid questions. You have to ask the stupid questions first to get them out of the way. Then if you're interested enough, you are presented with the less stupid questions.
About atheism, i refute it because it's false: i don't know enough about my mind to know what's there. Even if my parents, or wider society more likely in this instance, hadn't brought the concept to my attention, there's still what's inherited in the brain, which is mysterious. Also, I don't happen to identify with Atheism. You do though.
04/19/08
+
PM |
QUOTE |
PERMALINK |
REPORT
cbit
jetsom said: "About atheism, i refute it because it's false"
Do you mean that you deny the existence of implicit atheism? I don't understand how you can say that and at the same time maintain that "i don't know enough about my mind to know what's there.". Isn't the most you could say: "i don't know whether implicit atheism exists".
edited: Apr 19 2008
+
PM |
QUOTE |
PERMALINK |
REPORT
cbit
jetsom said: "I am talking about knowledge gathered through evolution, the mind i have inherited. ipods weren't around when I was born."
I brought up the idea of kids raised without being told about the idea of gods. If these kids started talking about that idea of their own accord, that would be evidence that we have an innate idea of a god (much as most of us seem to have an innate idea of right and wrong, justice). I'm not aware of any such evidence. Instead i hear accounts of kids raised in atheistic homes being gently introduced to the idea of gods and replying 'that's silly!' or similar. In these cases at least it seems safe to assume that the kids are implicitly atheistic, ergo: implicit atheism exists.
04/19/08
+
PM |
QUOTE |
PERMALINK |
REPORT
Jetsom
I refute that i'm an implicit atheist yes (quoted myself quoting you badly). I don't know what lurks beneath in the unconcious mind, in the millenia year old brain I've inherited. That's a mystery.
04/19/08
+
PM |
QUOTE |
PERMALINK |
REPORT
cbit
Jetsom said: "I refute that i'm an implicit atheist yes (quoted myself quoting you badly). I don't know what lurks beneath in the unconcious mind, in the millenia year old brain I've inherited. That's a mystery."
I'm not talking about unconscious beliefs (whatever that might mean). This is much simpler. Implicit atheism talks about the absence of conscious beliefs, beliefs of the same kind as "i believe there's a beer in the fridge" (sadly i don't  ).
04/19/08
+
PM |
QUOTE |
PERMALINK |
REPORT
Jetsom
No editing: I refute that i was born an implicit atheist, yes (quoted myself quoting you badly, as you possibly gathered). I don't know what lurks beneath in the unconscious mind, in the milenia old brain I've inherited. That's a mystery.
04/19/08
+
PM |
QUOTE |
PERMALINK |
REPORT
Jetsom
I believe I have a hangover, no I KNOW IT. No, I'm not talking about unconscious beliefs either. But knowledge inherited through evolution, the whole structure of thought, including unconscious thought. The whole structure, movement of thought.
04/19/08
+
PM |
QUOTE |
PERMALINK |
REPORT
Jetsom
Thought being knowledge, as it's stored. Ah, my head. That's enough.
04/19/08
+
PM |
QUOTE |
PERMALINK |
REPORT
cbit
I refute that i was born an implicit atheist
Checking i've understood: are you saying that you weren't an implicit atheist when you were born, or are you saying you do not know if you were an implicit atheist when you were born?
04/19/08
+
PM |
QUOTE |
PERMALINK |
REPORT
dach
knowledge is not required for the existence of god. knowledge lies in the domain of science, that is, the part of the universe accessible by logic. it has nothing to do with god.
edited: Apr 19 2008
+
PM |
QUOTE |
PERMALINK |
REPORT
cbit
dach said: "knowledge is not required for the existence of god."
Knowledge is not required in order for ipods to exist either. Again, its not at all clear what you're trying to say.
Register / login
|
^
EM411 is Copyright 2001-2008 EM411.com
All rights reserved. | Contact | RSS
|
