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Help defend science: flunked not expelled
Author: cbit on April 18 2008 Viewed 8187 times. 29 people liked this blog. You can rate it below if you haven't already.
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Apologies, a completely non-music related post.
The creationist/ID friendly pseudo documentary called Expelled will be screening near you soon. In the film, Ben Stein claims that scientists critical of the theory of evolution are being silenced by the powers behind "big science". Through ham fisted montages the film also tries to establish a link between the theory of evolution and Nazism and other genocidal ideologies.
Christian fundamentalists are lobbying hard to promote this film, even offering incentives to school groups to go and see it.
A counter site has been launched by the national center for science education that lists, and refutes, the lies and important omissions of the expelled film.
Publishing hyperlinks to the expelled exposed site, using 'expelled' as the visible link text, will help make the counter site more visible in search engines, and help ensure that people really do hear 'both sides' of the story. If you can, please help out.
Here's a review of the film:
link
Digging this page will help spread the word too (there's a subtle digg link beneath this blog post)
edit: "help defend science" == shorthand for 'help protect people from being robbed of the chance to understand the scientific method, to understand the crucial importance of evidence based reason in evaluating truth claims, to understand the principles or critical thought, to appreciate the enormous weight of evidence in support of evolutionary theory.' | |
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04/18/08
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mlbot
04/18/08
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zach
subset said: "Or maybe an atheist can experience the same amazement and think about how intensely beautiful the process of evolution is?"
Absolutely.
For me, I would replace "the process of evolution" with "the natural world." Believing that we are able to understand the world around us and that, with time, we will understand even more... again, for me... that doesn't undercut the potential for a sense of wonder.
Did everyone see that article Ricky Gervais wrote about that? link
04/18/08
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Spark
I think what it boils down to really, is faith. Everyone needs to believe in something. The trouble I have with organized religion is that they don't let you develop that idea on your own, and so your belief system is cloned in a way, and so you see a bunch of people like yourself and think "That is Right".
Science is just another arm of the same league, and currently, supporters of Science want the same kind of control of information that religion has, so that they can shape your word view and use it to sort of guide your behavior.
Humans are a flock, and when danger is proposed by a "leader" we react to it without hesitation. That is the type of power that religion and science both want to be able to use on humanity.
There is nothing wrong with having a belief system, it can be quite helpful to have a set of basic rules to depend on that everyone follows (civilization). It is especially helpful if you are the one in control of that belief system. Therefore, you have a lot of power if you discover one for yourself.
Keep the faith, don't let anyone tell you there is something wrong with it. But try to be subjective about it, and apply it to your own life.
Society appears to be made of of groups, but it is a continuum of individuals who all interconnect. We all eat and sleep and shit. We were all born and we will all die.
04/18/08
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maydaycapsiz
Some thoughts to consider:
I personally am not convinced of evolution (but believe it can be compatitble with bible at a stretch)....
I have not seen expelled...and probably wont
I personally believe there is incredible evidence for a designer...I personally can't conceive how we can exist breathe think or love without a designer...for me its more philosophy than science
For me the intellectual evidence for my faith more rests on the person of Jesus...historically...this guy truly believed he was the son of God....and I believe him
04/18/08
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cbit
spark said: "That is the type of power that religion and science both want to be able to use on humanity"
Science doesn't 'want' anything. Can you rephrase?
04/18/08
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mlbot
Damn, Spark found out that i am trying to control the flow of information so that i can guide his behavior and control his belief system.
edited: Apr 18 2008
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cbit
@maydaycapsiz
I personally am not convinced of evolution (but believe it can be compatitble with bible at a stretch)....
Have you read a book dedicated to explaining evolution in your adult life? (the blind watchmaker and the selfish gene are both excellent).
I personally believe there is incredible evidence for a designer...
Have you contemplated the design flaws of 'creation'? (eg the human appendix, useless and occasionally deadly) It looks like the designer was incompetent, or the 'designer' is a blind, shortsighted natural process (just like evolution ;))
For me the intellectual evidence for my faith more rests on the person of Jesus...historically...this guy truly believed he was the son of God....and I believe him
Do you also accept the divine claims of Sai Baba? we have much better evidence of his divinity (and historical existence) than we do for Jesus, so you should certainly look into him if you didn't do already.
04/18/08
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mlbot
Cbit, I don't think anyone religious will stress over the appendix. there are much bigger concepts that have caused serious philisophical struggle.
Like War.
Still, I dont think (most) faith is about EXPLAINING war (or appendixes), but perhaps about DEALING with it.
Athiesm may try to explain it (shit happens) but doesn't do a very good job when it comes time to deal with it.
04/18/08
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tantan
mlbot made me write this post
04/18/08
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minisystem
i am a scientist. a molecular biologist to be specific. while i don't work specifically on studying the mechanisms of evolution, evolutionary theory is the unifying glue that makes biochemistry, genetics, cell biology, physiology, anatomy, ecology, etc stick together. i think what upsets me.the most about a layperson's personal skepticism about the science of evolution is that they seem perfectly happy to accept and benefit from other scientific theories. newtonian physics, for instance.
i am not a physicist and therefore don't feel qualified to even have an opinion about the validity of a particular theory in physics.
i'm happy to trust the physicists to sort that out and whatever they distill for public consumption - i'll take their word for it.
science is complicated and hard. not everyone can be expected to understand it all and those of us that are trained as scientists can only really have intimate knowledge about a tiny section of our field of study.
when a layperson says 'I personally am not convinced of evolution' i raises my hackles a bit. after 10 years of studying biology i'm not even close to being up to snuff on contemporary evolutionary theory. but i'm happy to let the evolutionary biologists work it out and take their word for it.
04/18/08
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ejectorset
maydaycapsiz said: "I think I might be the only Christian at this site."
don't think that. i am a Christian as well. and have a daughter. and on this site. in fact i came kinda close to flaming cbit for posting a blog here about his atheist site awhile back.
we recently got some dvds from netflix talking about the universe hosted by sam neil. i always think its kinda rad that scientists, like super nerdy people with really expensive powerful lasers that are simulating stars being created can't really explain with science anything about pre big bang or how it all got started, but they know it did. its like the one thing they will totally accept in a pretty faith-like manner. they know the universe is here.
04/18/08
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Spark
cbit said: " spark said: "That is the type of power that religion and science both want to be able to use on humanity"
Science doesn't 'want' anything. Can you rephrase?"
Ok, right you are, so I'll clarify.
Scientists as well as the people who pay for and conduct scientific inquiry, want something. The are "Science" with a capital "S".
You see, Science values one type of scientific discovery over another (even if scientists don't), and that's unscientific. Once a type of discovery is more valuable than another, you have a value structure.
What other thing in this discussion ALSO has a value structure.
I'm not talking about the abstract "idea" of science, I'm talking about the real science that's out there everyday as a foundation for business to print newspapers, disseminate information, and conduct scientific inquiry with billions of dollars worth of investment. Someone, has a vested interest in how that information is related back to the public, and it is those individuals who shape the idea of science in our lives.
Is this not true?
Here are some examples of "Science"
link
link
Here are some examples of "Faith"
link
link
In the interest of scientific comparisons, can you find ANYTHING remotely similar between these?
Start with just the headlines.
Is Science (capital S), Making lives better for Humanity?
Would you not agree that Science is always presented as a means to make the lives of Mankind better? That devoting yourself to discovery and objectivity is a good "way of life".
What does that sound like to you?
04/18/08
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tantan
I like ejectorset's comment a lot. Accepting on faith the realities of the inexplicable is certainly common to folks who feel it necessary to distinguish between science and religion. We're not so different philosophically than we think. This is why science v. faith dichotomies often irritate me, as I don't see why they can't be reconciled for the most part. Faith comes in handy when we need to feel that we understand something that we don't have a scientific explanation for. There's nothing wrong with that, and it brings a lot of people a lot of comfort. The best example as far as I am concerned is the most obvious one: death. We have no fucking clue. Why not fill the gap with faith instead of fear?
What rattles my chains is the sort of self-aware ignorance that you find at any extreme, a bullish unwillingness to account for overwhelming evidence. Yes, we should always question "authority," religious and scientific, but at a certain point defying legitimate evidence of certain facts is a fool's game.
04/18/08
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mlbot
Spark, you are a victem of marketing, and while you might not be buying anything, you seem to be buying into it 100%.
04/18/08
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tantan
Spark, that sounds to me like human nature. People have agendas and are corrupt. These are global human symptoms, and it's a redundant truism to say that science is somehow exempt. Who would claim that?
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