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Help defend science: flunked not expelled
Author: cbit on April 18 2008 Viewed 8185 times. 29 people liked this blog. You can rate it below if you haven't already.
People who enjoyed reading this: EsromCole, yghartsyrt, bodo, Zanf, Analog, Logo, hecanjog, crabster, bleen, license, Otterfan, minisystem, mlbot, Jetsom, subset, 11t1, zach, monty, Spark, SenorFrio, Fredo, ignatius, delete, tantan, p, tylth, jp, sAMsKi, flies
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Apologies, a completely non-music related post.
The creationist/ID friendly pseudo documentary called Expelled will be screening near you soon. In the film, Ben Stein claims that scientists critical of the theory of evolution are being silenced by the powers behind "big science". Through ham fisted montages the film also tries to establish a link between the theory of evolution and Nazism and other genocidal ideologies.
Christian fundamentalists are lobbying hard to promote this film, even offering incentives to school groups to go and see it.
A counter site has been launched by the national center for science education that lists, and refutes, the lies and important omissions of the expelled film.
Publishing hyperlinks to the expelled exposed site, using 'expelled' as the visible link text, will help make the counter site more visible in search engines, and help ensure that people really do hear 'both sides' of the story. If you can, please help out.
Here's a review of the film:
link
Digging this page will help spread the word too (there's a subtle digg link beneath this blog post)
edit: "help defend science" == shorthand for 'help protect people from being robbed of the chance to understand the scientific method, to understand the crucial importance of evidence based reason in evaluating truth claims, to understand the principles or critical thought, to appreciate the enormous weight of evidence in support of evolutionary theory.' | |
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04/18/08
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Spark
Basically Cbit, I have no problems with science or religion. Amongst friends and family both are quite fine. In todays "modern" society believing in a religion shows a great deal of humility, which I respect. Believing in science is unscientific, you either conduct scientific experiments and are a scientist or you believe in science like how a Christian believes in god. You are merely a consumer of scientific facts, which you take for granted, and trust the source of the information as being objective and in your best interests because you "Believe".
I'm sorry but it's true.
Even the fact that we are debating the two, shows that the two are related somehow.
04/18/08
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tantan
Now that point I agree with.
04/18/08
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Spark
Swallowed by marketing? hahaha
Dude Puhleaze!
Can I see some facts to prove it then? Because I don't BELIEVE YOU.
If you absolutely NEED TO KNOW.
You know what I believe?
SHIT HAPPENS!
And there isn't no god sitting
here wiping my fucking tears
and making my life OK for me
and science can't tell me how
to make it more right either..
so all I can depend on is me.
And all my life I will be this
which was born of my mother
and will die as a father
leaving behind one which was born of me.
repeat.
04/18/08
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mlbot
the fact is you posted links to marketing sites as your examples and called it "Science".
I wont speak for the faith examples you posted, but I suspect someone who has thought deeply about their Religion for their whole life will find your examples either offensive or ill-informed.
when someone sells you something, and calls it "Science", and you too call it "Science" you've bought into it.
If you are going to try to educate me on what Science is, you better do some homework.
i assume that the same is going to go for your thoughts on Faith. Better do some homework before you try to educate someone on how their faith is actually just a way "they" are trying to control you.
04/18/08
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tantan
Spark. Okay.
I sort of agree with some of this. I definitely believe that reality is relative and subjective, that one person's "fact" may be another's lie, etc.
But, how much of your life follows a clear line from any number of scientific result?
If there is any reality at all, and perhaps there isn't, then doesn't the fact of the keyboard you are typing into represent something provable, scientifically? You seem to be dealing in absolutes, and I'm not sure why that is any different than the sort of blind faith that we agree should not be trusted.
04/18/08
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tantan
also, mlbot made me write the above response. Fuck off mlbot, I can think for myself you dirty scientist.
04/18/08
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tantan
Sorry, I also am surprised when I encounter people whose art interacts so intimately with technology -- tactile scientific deliverables -- can so radically defy the possibility of scientific outcomes. Perhaps I misunderstand, and you've drawn a line somehow between scientific marketing and technology. If that's the case, then that's healthy and you should continue to do so.
04/18/08
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Spark
mlbot said: "the fact is you posted links to marketing sites as your examples and called it "Science".
"
How many atoms have you split ML? How many black holes have you visited lately? How many rock samples from Mars have you personally collected?
I did some quick homework and I came up with a number. NONE.
So would you say then that you believe in those things? That you have gathered sufficient proof? Read a significant amount of information and seen some pictures? And all these things, verified by the right institutions and came from trusted sources?
But the fact remains. Have you ever seen one? Have you ever touched one? Personally?
You are exactly the same as some god loving Christian is what I'm saying ML.
You believe and take for granted all that you have not personally witnessed.
FACT.
04/18/08
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mlbot
A much better example of Science is Science.
They have an article this week that Astroid might enjoy, link
i dont think you have to subscribe to read that letter.
geeky Science letter said: "many musical terms can be understood as expressing symmetries of n-dimensional space, where each dimension represents a voice in the score. Identifying--gluing together--points related by these symmetries produces exotic mathematical spaces (orbifolds) that subsume a large number of geometric models previously proposed
The use of mathematics to describe, analyze, and create music goes back millennia. Mathematical questions have previously emerged in music theory that are appealing, nontrivial, and, in several cases, connected to other scientific fields, such as physics, dynamical systems, and crystallography (2-4). Math inspired composers such as Schoenberg, Messaien, and Xenakis; musical investigations have even motivated mathematical discoveries (5)..."
04/18/08
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mlbot
I mean, plotting tones onto a thrice-folded moebis Strip???
what's not to love about that article????????????
04/18/08
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tantan
okay, got it. Spark, I agree with both you and mlbot, see my earlier comment, that I've quote below. I don't see any real basis for argument here.
I like ejectorset's comment a lot. Accepting on faith the realities of the inexplicable is certainly common to folks who feel it necessary to distinguish between science and religion. We're not so different philosophically than we think. This is why science v. faith dichotomies often irritate me, as I don't see why they can't be reconciled for the most part. Faith comes in handy when we need to feel that we understand something that we don't have a scientific explanation for. There's nothing wrong with that, and it brings a lot of people a lot of comfort. The best example as far as I am concerned is the most obvious one: death. We have no fucking clue. Why not fill the gap with faith instead of fear?
04/18/08
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tantan
I think that it is very important not to conflate theory with provable scientific results. They are NOT THE SAME THING.
04/18/08
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tantan
also that Science article gave me a boner
04/18/08
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mlbot
LOL.
I think what you were saying earlier Spark is something along the lines that since both Science and Religion involve some element of Faith, they can both be used to control people... and that you, having developed your own belief system, are superior to anyone who believes in either Science, god, or both.
Or did I miss your point?
Seems rather simplistic and hubristic.
04/18/08
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monty
I believe i can fly
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