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non-random use of random numbers?
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That's probably not a good description,
I'm wondering if anyone can point me to research/articles which describe use of random numbers in pattern-generation. . like
Well OK so, say I am sequencing the notes of a synth (so in a way it is not random), but that synth contains an element of randomness ...
Current specific example of mine - I have sequenced chords, and set the synth up so that one osc is one octave below the other, and the LFO is set to modulate filter on random (the filter and lfo amount being setup so that it filters various notes in the chords - producing the appearance of a melody)
The melody sounds remarkably good no longer how long I leave it running, even though it is apparently random when you stop and think about it. . is my random number generator not random? or is there some kind of explanation of all this apparent order/progression that is emerging based on the base sequence (which is only 3 chords held over 4 bars total - 1, 1, 2)
I guess something along the lines of the theory behind livecut - which is somewhat random (probabilities) but somewhat algorithmic - and due to this combination seems to give off a very 'real' feeling (when settings are set rright)
Or is it perhaps some phenomenon of human perception, that the brain can be tricked without using any actual logical progression? which I would be equally keen reading on.
Basically I want to further investigate this area (yes ... id much rather program sections of randomness than actual notes) , and want to know what has been done before me to save reinventing the wheel. | |
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05/06/08
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delete
are your chords on the same scale? how many notes do you have simultaneously? is the random lfo synced to clock? just trying to understand what you're doing, it seems interesting.
05/06/08
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yghartsyrt
maybe try out random probabilities, so that particular settings occur more often than other.
what do yu chosse as a random source and in which programm? maybe thre are some tricks, that make the result more enjoyable.
or make one specific random setting trigger a cluster of other random settings.
for example you have a probability-table that triggers
3 = 10%
6 = 70%
1 = 5 %
8 = 15%
make 8 trigger a new set of probabilities
or have a look at markov chains
05/06/08
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astroid
i have a feeling that your melody sounds good because a filter tends to pull out partials from the overtone series of whatever you're filtering, so it always relates intimately with the source.
i love to compose melodies by just filtering things.
05/06/08
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bla
i think very complex non random stuff is better than random
you can get so much chaos out of a system that has no randomness at all- especially if youve got lfo's modulating each others rates
05/06/08
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jarvis
there's random seeding, where a certain set of random events is stored and becomes reproducible/repeatable
05/06/08
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Roshi
Yes, and there's rule sets like cellular automata that generate complex (but understandable and repeatable) sequences.
05/06/08
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Roshi
Also, look up generative music - that will give you a good start
05/06/08
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lematt
i tend to love Markov chains because it gives ever changing states/behaviours.
bla's solution is allright too, 'cause you can decide of the rythm and/or the melody, but apply modulations on chosen aspects of the sound character.
05/06/08
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jarvis
i really want to get more into cellular automata. i found wolfram's book and it's resource guide for ~$10 but it's a lot of info. it's also hard to get past how full of himself wolfram is. i would love to see video of 3D cellular automata
05/06/08
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Roshi
Yeah, Wolfram is really full of himself.
I don't know that much about it, but there are some musical applications of his 256 cellular automata out there...
This seems like a gentle introduction: link
05/06/08
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lematt
also, you can have a look at that video, which shows what you can do with markov chains in PD:
Video
if you install puredata, you can have a look at this patch, i made it to understand the video just above: link
05/06/08
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yghartsyrt
Roshi said: "Yeah, Wolfram is really full of himself.
I don't know that much about it, but there are some musical applications of his 256 cellular automata out there...
This seems like a gentle introduction: link"
that's because he's a recursive function of himself.
05/06/08
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jp
i' recommend the book "musimathics" by gareth loy which explains a variety of methods for algorithmic composition. there's a lot of mathematics inside (especially the second volume which is more about acoustics than composition). but it's very complete.
05/06/08
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Roshi
yghartsyrt said: " Roshi said: "Yeah, Wolfram is really full of himself.
I don't know that much about it, but there are some musical applications of his 256 cellular automata out there...
This seems like a gentle introduction: link"
that's because he's a recursive function of himself."
LOL @ incredibly geeky joke
05/06/08
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bla
i read a book years ago (back when i used to read books!) called 'the recursive universe'
all about cellular automata
very inspiring
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