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I started this as a comment in bla's blog about doing shit the hard, stupid way, but decided to expand the idea to its own rant/blog/whine.
Every time I've listened to cbit,ml,delta,implexgrace,lowlifi,nq,adjective,albatrocity or, really just alot of you who create these sounds and tracks I just cannot figure out, I think I MUST be doing shit the hard, stupid way, and even if I weren't, it would still take more time and devotion to finish one track than I have to spare. I usually spend the four to six hours I can alot per week just getting a melody or wrestling with the technology, and lose the spark and give up. I have about 3 hours of recorded melody and bassline ideas saved as impromptu clips from just the last year, since I posted that gearpron blog. I also have a few saved sequences going back 8 years that are all between 20 seconds and a minute, and they each took days to get to that point.
Some of you peeps here should hold classes for money on how to do this stuff right, with a curriculum, demos, assignments and so forth. By the end, I would be able to use the tools in the class to make compositions without once getting lost or stuck. There could probably be one style per course. I'd pay for that, seriously. If you were worried about giving up trade secrets, consider it a motivator to come up with new sounds and teach the old, standard stuff.
It reminds me of learning Linux or Unix: There's often only one way to get the shell to do what you want in a certain situation, and you could spend years learning the OS and never get enough of it down to make it work for you completely, whereas you can find your way around windows or OSX in one sitting. Just to get one command to work, sometimes you have to read and read and read and read and read and read and read and you finally find that what you needed ends up being a difference of three characters from what you origianlly typed.
If someone had been standing over your shoulder and you'd asked one simple question, hours or even days would not be lost.
This whole music thing is just like that for me, mostly in terms of technique for generating timbres I hear in music posted here, but also to a great degree on sequencing and producing non-repetitive drums that sound good. If someone stood behind me and said "You start with this drum loop, easily found online, and run it through this chain of free plugins to get this specific sound, then use this magic thingy to chop it up" then I could apply it and better focus on how to creatively arrange it into a track. Maybe it would change later, but it's part of the process, and impedes progress until the task is done.
I spend copious amounts of time either trying to get something simple that doesn't sound like ass or trying and often failing just to get the software to cooperate. It isn't fair that you spend all this money and the software crashes or doesn't work like expected, yet it's overwhelming with all the possibilities and directions to go when it works.
Timing is a big, big problem for me, even with some jittery plugins, and especially when trying to sync two apps together when both vendors were too arrogant or incompetent to allow their product to be a Rewire slave. Most importantly, Midi jitter and latency from the external devices can make life miserable, and you start to imagine timing problems that aren't even there.
I can see how those of you who only possess a PC and a controller, and use one main sequencing application, with an arsenal of plugins, can get so much done. But even then, I constantly hear things posted here that sound like if I tried to do them, they would take two lifetimes to finish. So many notes, so many events, and how much of it was done by hand versus not? And "I know that that sound there resembles a snare, but how did it get that way?", and on and on. I just get angry that I don't understand how it was done, and possibly because I know I would never have the time to do it right. I start trying to reverse-engineer little tidbits from all the different posts into my own ideas, and just get frustrated. This has been going on since I first noticed em411 in June 2003.
It's clear there is a new breed of virtuoso, as evidenced by RDJ,Tom Jenkinson,etc. whose proficiency lies in manipulating software to compose and produce, and in comparison, maybe I'm the chimpanzee with my typewriter. But I can't help thinking there are just some key techniques and ideas that no one mentions because they take them for granted, yet I've never even thought to try them, despite reading posts here regularly for five years. I've asked people on this forum how they did this or that before, and usually people either don't remember, or it's too complex to explain. But I have to wonder how many of those people ever read books, took classes or the like. More than likely, this modern method of composition and production is mostly self-taught for nearly everyone who tries it and succeeds.
I know, I know. Just get in there and do it with no expectations right? If it sounds like ass, then at least you had fun, right? I've made piles of infantile,amateur tripe for 11 years now, and nearly all of it is incomplete. I want to do something I can actually publish and be proud of. Not for once: For good. | |
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06/06/08
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jogn
I really think all you probably need is to concretely think of the sound you want and just go for it. The only foolproof formula for doing anything is probably just bloody mindedness.
06/06/08
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RogerRoger
Roshi said: "Listen to music - learn to develop an musical theme or melody. There is no one good way to compose."
Sometimes I wonder if it's not a good idea to listen to really gifted musicians for anything other than recreation. It's been my experience if you try and emulate your music idols, who probably have loads of talent and years of experience, you are maybe going to pick up a phrase or idea but anything more is an exercise in futility.
I've been listening to great bands and wanting to imitate them like anybody else, and then I cower in fear and confusion at the mere thought of actually trying anything by them once I turn on the power to the desk. When I listen to Aphex or Zappa or Coltrane or any of the great classical composers, I just get lost in a sea of questions and confusion if I do anything more than listen for enjoyment.
Confession time:
Some of you may remember a track from my now-expired panicnow site called "Waters" where I was trying to emulate 'teH aPhex beATs'. All the drums in that track were the Midi events ripped off from the "Trip Hop" pattern in Steinberg Groove Agent, sped up from 80bpm to 150 bpm. I may have mapped different samples than what Groove Agent was using for the notes, but the pattern itself is a direct ripoff, completely unchanged aside from tempo.
In other words, I want to do complex drum sequences, but really couldn't be arsed to do the work. Methinks this attitude will have to change, and change fast.
06/06/08
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proj
The video links from my earlier post were mangled.. edit is not working so here they are without the http
www youtube com/watch?v=96PfTcGHZ4Q
www youtube com/watch?v=knnLsJ37PLI
06/06/08
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mlbot
I think there ARE some tricks to stuff like that.
patterns are your friend. Any time you can copy & paste, rather than build from scratch, is good.
I hope for teh Aphex beatz you are using something like Recycle! because it'll make your life so much easier.
Just taking a beat run through Recycle! and then applying MIDI tranposition effects can be great, like an invert scale or something. Copy & pasting chunks is great. Cannons are great, especially if your cannon has the decay times shortened or something. Stuff meant for melodies and instead applied to beats can be great. You dont have to reinvent the wheel every time, instead, reuse your ideas as often as possible.
06/06/08
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astroid
re: making teh aphex
simplicity. work with three tools until exhaustion- cut and paste, volume graphs, and maybe MAYBE a lowpass filter. then trial and error.
06/06/08
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astroid
also, i go with cbit in how he prefers to work with audio rather than midi. the audio ends up being more specific than midi could be-timing errors or whatever, but also the ability to adjust the file down to the sample and give a more detailed volume graph than something that needs to be rendered with every pass. makes it tighter than a snail pussy.
06/06/08
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astroid
oh and pitch shift.
four things then. copypasta, volume graph, filter, and pitch shift.
06/06/08
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p
rogerroger - considering some of my favorite tracks by the aphex and the sqarepusher are from funkydrummer or the amen break sped up and chopped. I don't consider lifting performance data bad. so many cool tracks have come from straight looping samples so you still did more work than some.
I used to have an everything from scratch mentality, but check my release history to see where that gets you.
06/06/08
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mlbot
Thats why I like Recycle!+ a sampler. you can easily apply smooth, expressive Pitch shifts with the pitch bend wheel. And set up your mod wheel for that filter you like. If you can automate Loop on/off points, you can easily turn your stacatto beats into moments of pure heck as they all turn into buzzy loops instead of punchy beats.
But the bottom line is to simplify. Samplers are simple.
06/06/08
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jogn
rogerroger: iirc venetian snares does the same thing as well, he admitted as much in an interview, except that i think he's transcended that to develop something unique to itself.
06/06/08
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mlbot
Also, check The FAQ
first question:
q: how do i make beatz like aphex?
a: program your own apps, then get back into hardware.
we must really love you, RR, for allowing you to pull us into the void that is discussing teh Aphex Beatz
06/06/08
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Roshi
In the end, you must be your own person.
No one will develop a 4 note melody like Beethoven, no matter how they try. But you can still learn things from how they do it.
I think mlbot & astroid's points are good - you are approaching music like it's Everest, when it should be fun. When you have these expectations and compare yourself to the 'greats', you are setting yourself up for failure. Ultimately, what I find inspiring about aphex and all those cats you mention is that they tread their own path.
I get frustrated when I listen to Rostropovich play, because it is so beautiful and I know I will never play like that. But that doesn't mean I can't succeed on my own terms, and work to be the best cellist that I can be.
This is sometimes why I think it's good to define your own genre, your own musical play space, so you can't compare yourself or be judged until you think that *you* are ready.
06/06/08
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RogerRoger
I just want to cover "Baby Snakes". 
06/06/08
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RogerRoger
Well, ok there's lots of stuff I'd like to cover, mostly stuff older than '88, but I definately agree this will take time,dedication and patience. Perhaps less beer consumption and less game playing are in order to prove once and for all if I really mean it.
And actually I was listening to a CD of my pre-2000 stuff on a 4 hour drive from Houston to Dallas, and quite enjoyed some of it. That's sorta what sparked this blog, really.
06/06/08
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p
yeah recycle's great, one of the only beat oriented programs I use even on ambient stuff. walk down the street recording and every footstep and bump against the mic can be layered with your drum hits.
another trick (probably super obvious) is if you like a chord from an old tune see if there's a midi file for it. drop that in your sequencer (maybe invert the chord or something) change the instrumentation to some nice multisamples. It's pretty easy to build a melody around a few transposed midi lifts. Given that jazz is often standards I don't find chord lifting offensive either as long as you bring something new to it as well. the benefit is freeing your brain up to concentrate on those crazy drums you want.
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