Electronic Music 411 - Sampling Records and CDs

05/03/08 + whitecar

I know sampling is a tired subject but I have some..well legal type questions I guess. Anyway I could use some advise.

Basically the deal is that I was all set to sample some classical and musique concrete albums for this album I'm doing when I realized that my record label is kind of picky about sampling. But in a good way -as in the tracks could end up in some other sort of media like a video game or a commercial. So obvious samples need to be cleared. But what is obvious? Would some Xenakis drums ever be recognized?

So far the label has had to clear one sample for an artist which was no problem but now I'm a little bit scared to sample the likes of Walter Carlos or John Cage without letting them know. Sure I could sneak this stuff past the label easily enough because these are obscure records or whatever but with my luck John Cage himself will be settling down for the evening, climes into bed and turns on the TV only to see some Isuzu commercial with his music being toyed with in the soundtrack!

Of course some stuff will be so cut up and processed that it wont matter but some samples might have a length issue. Like a string section or a drum break.
I know that it is extremely unlikely that any one would ever spot these samples I'm thinking of(or that my music would end up in a commercial) but my label has got me quite paranoid.

All thoughts appreciated.

Recent Blog: White Car album out now on Sixteen Steps

05/04/08 + thehydrax

I don't think John Cage himself will have much too say about the matter...
Neither will Walter Carlos, though Wendy might.
I'm no expert but I would hazzard to say that anything that is blindingly obviously a sample should be cleared. Your label wants to play it safe, nobody wants a law suit. It's an interesting topic...I wonder if ~Scape cleared samples on Loop Finding Jazz Records? I mean, it's highly processed but it's all sampled...probably not. long, unprocessed samples, I reckon clear them

Recent blogs: The City of 2000, Australia is officially Sorry, Stupid kid throws party, starts riot

05/04/08 + elronhubbard

remember that anything you get sued over will have to be proven in court (or hashed out between two lawyers, more likely).

so its a personal judgement call as to whether you think it should be cleared

Recent blogs: stalking aaron funk, Hubbard's Continental Burger, ok so i just bought a mac

05/04/08 + dach

It is morally wrong to use other artists work without permission. You know this. You are not asking us questions about the legality of it, you already know the answers to that. You are asking us if you will get away with it, and the answer is 'almost certainly'. But that doesnt make it right.

Recent blogs: live music videos blog, circuit bending on TV, Swedish circuit bending workshop

05/04/08 + inteliko

Sample Clearance...The Avalanches do it, Daft Punk do it, every rap artist but Timbo, and you should do it too.

05/04/08 + whitecar

Don't go there, Dach.

Recent blogs: My First Laptop- or-Mommy Wow, I'm a Big Kid Now, At war..with the the Alphabet, White Car album out now on Sixteen Steps

05/04/08 + FailedSitcom

I never sample music that I consider to be good (and we're talking like fragments here), hopefully I'll then be able to make it better.

Recent blogs: Tipu's Tiger

05/04/08 + whitecar

Hydrax-I wonder the same thing about that record. It seems like it's all about what you want to do with the recording. If these samples were simply for a myspace track or some internet label than I wouldn't even be thinking about this stuff. I specifically want these particular samples because these records and composers are important to me and I'd love for the 3 or 4 record collectors who might hear the tracks to go "hey I have that album".

On OK Computer, Radiohead sampled the Columbia-Princeton Electronic Music Center (a musique concrete album circa 1960)and I spotted it immediately and was impressed. I said "hey I have that album".

In the end, I will get the samples cleared because in this case it is important but honestly what I gathered from the labels experience from dealing with EMI over a sample was that they were kind of annoyed that we weren't talking about sampling Maria Carey or Sting or something. The fact is that it was a children's cassette from 1983. This had them sending us from one department to the next until the right one was eventually found.

The overall feeling I got was that they couldn't care less about some 1983 cassette they own the copyright of so I'm trying to gage how they'll feel about four seconds of drums from an obscure composer from 1968.

Recent blogs: My First Laptop- or-Mommy Wow, I'm a Big Kid Now, At war..with the the Alphabet, White Car album out now on Sixteen Steps

05/04/08 + dach

I'd hardly call Xenakis obscure.
Somehow your 'all thoughts appreciated' rather conflicts with 'don't go there dach'.

Recent blogs: live music videos blog, circuit bending on TV, Swedish circuit bending workshop

05/04/08 + bodo

I would be careful too, the estate of Cage has no remorse for people sampling his music, a (home recording) guy got sued a couple of years ago for releasing a 'silent' song.

But in the end it's more about the performers who'll be after you than the actual composers themselves. And no, this music is indeed far from obscure

05/04/08 + yghartsyrt

one simple rule.
if the sample is fucked up beyond compare and nobody would ever think that this is the last 50 cent track i won't go for any clearance.

if there's a chance, that somebody might spot the sample: go for clearance.

Recent blogs: Metallica doing a free web-release?, Free music devalueating music itself?, Crystal Castles Copyright Infringement (?)

05/04/08 + theflame

whitecar said: "
On OK Computer, Radiohead sampled the Columbia-Princeton Electronic Music Center (a musique concrete album circa 1960)and I spotted it immediately and was impressed. I said "hey I have that album".

"

Did they? Which track/what's the sample?

Recent blogs: Gig In A Squat, Found Sound, I wanna make a film

05/04/08 + FailedSitcom

I think he's referring to the sample of Mild und Leise by Paul Lansky which is actually sampled on Kid A (the song Idiotique).

MusicThing had a feature about it a while back I think.

Recent blogs: Tipu's Tiger

05/04/08 + whitecar

Bodo: thanks. thats the kind of stuff i needed to hear.
Dach: sorry bout that. i just wanted to talk about the legalities of sampling, not the ethics.
The Flame and Failed Sitcom: Yes the sample is on Kid A. It's from the album Electronic Music Winners released in 1976. Sorry for the mix up.

Recent blogs: My First Laptop- or-Mommy Wow, I'm a Big Kid Now, At war..with the the Alphabet, White Car album out now on Sixteen Steps

05/04/08 + dkarma

It is morally wrong to use other artists work without permission.

[wait for it wait for it]

bahahahahahahahahahahah

Morals are subjective. No it is not morally wrong to use other artists work without permission where did you learn that?
It MAY be morally wrong to call the resulting music your own.
Don't let anyone tell you it's theft or "infringement" or any other legal mumbo jumbo. That's treading on RIAA ground there. And we all know how solid that argument is...

I'd say if it is lyrical and recognizable as the original piece get it cleared otherwise what's the worst that can happen they sue for 10%?
If your label asks then definitely get anything not completely twisted cleared.

Personally I'm so damn great that most artists should be flattered that I'd even consider sampling them.